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Charly777 said:
I'm beginning to wonder about mine, 13,500 on the clock . Took it in to get the service indication N010 software fix a few months ago. Should I wait till 21K assuming nothing indicates I need a service ?
Charly, if you are running an Ingenium 2.0 litre diesel engine on the original oil with that mileage you will have already sustained considerable diesel dilution of the lubricating oil, the precise value being dependent on your driving style - but, based on the experience of other owners with a functioning Service Warning message, you might already be above 7% without knowing it. How serious an issue is this? Well, to quote Jaguar Land Rover's Stuart Woodcock, Technical Service Engineering Manager, "Continued vehicle operation with high oil dilution will result in engine failure."

You can get the old oil tested for as little as ÂŁ20 a time by Millers Oils. They'll give you an accurate indication of the diesel dilution percentage with a breakdown of the wear metals present in the sample. Just to give you an indication of how serious this can be, my 2.0 150PS did 5600 miles on the original oil before it was changed at JLR's expense; the actual diesel dilution of what came out was found to be 4%, Iron was 197 ppm (up from 159 ppm 600 miles and 20 days previously) and Copper 41 ppm. These figures mean that the engine is basically shedding metals at a much faster rate than normal and, in my view (not to mention that of many oil technology experts), diesel dilution is causing this to happen. I've now got clean oil again but there's no way that I'm going to run it for more than 3 months before testing it again. ÂŁ20 is cheap against the price of a new engine. And, as others have noted, what is going to happen to second hand values of these cars in say 3 to 5 years time? This is not over by a long chalk.

Good Luck.
 
Thanks, just checked there is Miller's near me, will call them tomorrow :D

ps

My driving style is always in ECO mode with excellent MPG results, hopefully this will help to reduce dilution
 
Charly777 said:
Thanks, just checked there is Miller's near me, will call them tomorrow :D

ps

My driving style is always in ECO mode with excellent MPG results, hopefully this will help to reduce dilution
You'd think so. But I've got a horrible feeling that it's actually the other way round!
 
Several of the posters here have referred to (and added images of) a display showing distance to next service.

I have searched everywhere on my car and I cannot bring up that display. How do you get to it?

I have a Ad-Blue specific option to display, but that is all.

My car is a DS 180bhp Auto SE-TECH 16.5, but I note others with a 16.5 (though a HSE) have posted displayed distances. So why isn't that display option available on my car? Surely, there cannot be such a feature difference between a SE-TECH & HSE.

My car has only just come back from an intensive stay at my dealers where all software updates were supposed to have been done including Q627 & N010, both of which relate to service interval messages. I really hope the car's software is up to date!

As background:- my car has currently done 8.7K miles and is 15mths old. The only service messages I have ever seen was once for Ad-Blue and windscreen fluid (about every 2.55 miles). Also, I am not aware of any oil or oil filter change that the car has had (though I am awaiting a document listing a long list of jobs done on my car recently).
 
simon said:
I'm told 'part of the N010 service message service action was to replace oil & filter if the IPK said oil service after completing the initial software update'.

So it looks like the engine management tests the oil again and it isn't reset blindly. If the DS subsequently shows oil service after the software update of N010 then LR replace oil and filter under warranty.
Almost right, but it doesn't "test" the oil. In fact, to repeat a point made several times, at no point is the oil ever analysed by the car. What it does when installed is to access the stored information on the regen cycles performed from day 1 and run the algorithm for the first time to bring the diesel dilution estimate up to date (based on a sample of 1, the estimate is slightly conservative). Then, if the threshold is crossed (not sure of the actual value for the 2.0 litre Ingenium but somewhere between 6.1% and 7.0%), the Service Warning light indicates that the car is overdue for a service. Actually it's not asking for a service as such, i.e. as OSH knows it, but just an interim oil change. Now, until another campaign is completed (July for Range Rover, RR Sport and All-new Discovery, "mid-August" for us mere mortals with 16MY/17MY 2.0 Disco Sport & Evoque), our PCM software can't manage the job of just resetting the dilution counter so currently, after the oil change, all the counters have to be reset en masse (like mine) and we'll be told to ignore the miles and days to run and to come back again either at 21K/2 years or if the light illuminates again before then. In the latter case there is then going to be an issue because some will qualify for a second, and possibly tertiary, complimentary service but others will be told they have to pay the second time (exceptionally even the first) because their mileage is close to 21K. Or click off one of your 2 free services if you are on the 5 year plan. After this further software update, the dealers will be able to perform the oil change and reset the dilution counter without interfering with the 21K/2 year counters. Then a new can of worms will open up because, as it stands, OSH can only record 21K/42K services so it, too, needs an update - otherwise none of these additional oil changes can ever be properly recorded electronically. Next, no dealer I've spoken to has been prepared to talk about "parting out" the oil change part of a service. So, assuming you get to a point where the flow chart precludes you from having a free oil change for one reason or another when the car demands one, as it stands you'll either have to go 3rd party, DIY, or lay out anything up to ÂŁ550 just to get the oil changed at a main dealer. If they pay, by the way, it isn't "under warranty", the lawyers presumably having told them that that word would imply acceptance of liability, so instead they'll call it a "goodwill contribution" to the cost of the work. When you see in writing that thay propose to make a contribution of 100% "towards" the work, you really have to scratch your head and wonder...

And even after all this hoo-ha, remember that the car isn't going to be asking for the oil change until the dilution level has reached a level that triggers the service warning. But if my vehicle is anything to go by (there is one more oil analysis post recorded on the Evoque web site that corroborates my lab findings but I do hope there will soon be some others) the tell-tale signature of high levels of wear metals showing up prematurely in the oil at much lower dilution levels than 6.1% indicates that the Warning light threshold is set way too high. This starts to look as if it's all about money, as usual, and I'm determined it isn't going to be mine.
 
Mike Martin said:
Several of the posters here have referred to (and added images of) a display showing distance to next service.

I have searched everywhere on my car and I cannot bring up that display. How do you get to it?

I have a Ad-Blue specific option to display, but that is all.

My car is a DS 180bhp Auto SE-TECH 16.5, but I note others with a 16.5 (though a HSE) have posted displayed distances. So why isn't that display option available on my car? Surely, there cannot be such a feature difference between a SE-TECH & HSE.

My car has only just come back from an intensive stay at my dealers where all software updates were supposed to have been done including Q627 & N010, both of which relate to service interval messages. I really hope the car's software is up to date!

As background:- my car has currently done 8.7K miles and is 15mths old. The only service messages I have ever seen was once for Ad-Blue and windscreen fluid (about every 2.55 miles). Also, I am not aware of any oil or oil filter change that the car has had (though I am awaiting a document listing a long list of jobs done on my car recently).
On the IC scroll down to Vehicle Information, then Service Info. You need the ignition on, but the engine must be off to access the PCM mileage counter.
 
VDS, agree with your well reasoned position, which brings us back to the very basic question of: with modern engines being designed to perform regeneration cycles during running ( basically poisoning the engine with excess fuel), why would a manufacturer ever think that extended lube oil changes are a good idea. I'm sure an oil change is such a basic essential task costing way under ÂŁ100, ought to be seen as a sensible to have an interim oil change as part of service plan!!
 
Very interesting topic and for me, I'll go down the oil analysis route and an oil change probably at the 12 month point. Ive used Millers oils for years and will definitely go down their analysis route. They provide a basic and premium oil analysis kit where you take a sample (or samples) and send it off to them, Simples really. Details here me no, I have no connection to Millers.
http://www.millersoils.co.uk/services/oil-analysis
 
BTW, forgot to add that a way to help alleviate the problem of debris is the addition of a "magnetic plug" or filter to catch the ferrous metal in the system. Got one in my central heating system and they are common on aircraft. Yeh I know, manufactures want to keep production costs down and it won't solve the current issue but food for thought.
 
I am picking my new DS up on Tuesday and i will be specifically asking the sales guy who sold me the car if i can just drive the car till the mileage hits 21K without any adverse affect to the engine as was 'sold' to me when I was buying the car.

It will be interesting to hear what he says!!
 
VeryDiscoSport said:
(To display service information)
On the IC scroll down to Vehicle Information, then Service Info. You need the ignition on, but the engine must be off to access the PCM mileage counter.
Thank you. Regrettably my car has no Service Info option in the Vehicle Information display.

Has anyone else got a 16.5 SE-TECH and can display Service Information under Vehicle Information?

If they can, then it looks like my car has been reprogrammed with the old software (that does not display service information), despite just coming back from being off road at my dealers for an extensive period, and specifically to get the car's software updated! Surely, that cannot be possible.
 
VeryDiscoSport said:
Charly777 said:
Thanks, just checked there is Miller's near me, will call them tomorrow :D

ps

My driving style is always in ECO mode with excellent MPG results, hopefully this will help to reduce dilution
You'd think so. But I've got a horrible feeling that it's actually the other way round!
I think your "feeling" is correct. My dealer confirmed that it has nothing to do with short journeys and more to do with the engine not being extended enough.

So, my theory FWIW is, long journeys at 60-70mph in 9th gear has the engine barely more than ticking over and not generating enough heat for passive regens hence the higher amount of active regens which is causing the dilution.
 
Mike Martin said:
VeryDiscoSport said:
(To display service information)
On the IC scroll down to Vehicle Information, then Service Info. You need the ignition on, but the engine must be off to access the PCM mileage counter.
Thank you. Regrettably my car has no Service Info option in the Vehicle Information display.

Has anyone else got a 16.5 SE-TECH and can display Service Information under Vehicle Information?

If they can, then it looks like my car has been reprogrammed with the old software (that does not display service information), despite just coming back from being off road at my dealers for an extensive period, and specifically to get the car's software updated! Surely, that cannot be possible.
Hi Mike, mine is a 2016.5 SE (but Australian model with the 2.2 engine). I don't have service information displayed in the "Vehicle Information" field either, just the VIN number. Mine has just been in for its annual service and amongst other updates had "N010 - Service warning message not displayed" applied. If you find there is a way of updating our vehicles so there is a running countdown to the service in the Vehicle Info menu, then please let me know so I can get mine done as well :D
 
You have to wonder about the tens of thousands of Disco diesel owners who are completely oblivious to this potential problem. There are no official recalls . If I wasn't on this forum I would no nothing about software updates etc .
 
Mike Martin said:
VeryDiscoSport said:
(To display service information)
On the IC scroll down to Vehicle Information, then Service Info. You need the ignition on, but the engine must be off to access the PCM mileage counter.
Thank you. Regrettably my car has no Service Info option in the Vehicle Information display.

Has anyone else got a 16.5 SE-TECH and can display Service Information under Vehicle Information?

If they can, then it looks like my car has been reprogrammed with the old software (that does not display service information), despite just coming back from being off road at my dealers for an extensive period, and specifically to get the car's software updated! Surely, that cannot be possible.
My car doesn't have this (SETech built in Feb 2016). I was wondering whether the N020 update that is due might add this facility.
 
The field actions related to service information appear to be:-
- Q627v4 - No 'Engine Service' Message Displayed In The Message Center
- N010v5 - 'Service Required' Message Not Displayed
- N020v4 - Service Warning Message Not Displayed

My car has just come back from an extensive period at the dealers. It was booked in specifically so the first two 'campaigns' were actioned. Yet I have no menu option to display service information!

Now awaiting feedback from dealer.

Another visit would be another day(s) off the road, which adds to Which's official "Don't Buy", largely due to days off the road.

My "days off road" is already approaching 4 weeks over 12-13 months, though to be fair there are some special circumstances.
 
Just to add at 9,000 miles have had a service required countdown message appear. Dealer has advised that there is a known problem with 16/17MY vehicles requiring an oil and filter change earlier than the first service interval and this will be provided under warranty. At least while it's in DAB fix and AdBlue top up can be sorted at the same time.
 
henryhorse said:
Just to add at 9,000 miles have had a service required countdown message appear. Dealer has advised that there is a known problem with 16/17MY vehicles requiring an oil and filter change earlier than the first service interval and this will be provided under warranty. At least while it's in DAB fix and AdBlue top up can be sorted at the same time.
Henry, you would be an ideal candidate to have laboratory oil analysis done now, in order to obtain another set of wear metal fugures and, equally importantly, an accurate dilution percentage in a car where the Service Message has just been triggered. Please consider doing this for your own benefit and then make the numbers available for others to see. I am going to start another thread just for posting analysis data, starting with a sample of brand new Castrol Edge Professional 0W-30 C2, then my own results. I'll post the link here.
 
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