[Barnsh]

That's a very interesting read regarding rising oil levels. It made me check my DS and this is what my dipstick look like (engine is cold and had an oil change about 2 months ago):

IMG_3352.JPG

If the oil is contaminated with diesel, will taking the car on long journeys decrease the diesel content or is changing oil the only option at this point? I havent recieved any service warning in the dash though.

The fuel dilution issues are with the Ingenium engine (as confirmed by LR in the service message to their dealers copied above) and as you have the Ford/PSA engine I wouldn't worry.

It was probably just overfilled by the dealer - the same happened to me at the last service.

If you want to make sure, just keep an eye on the level and if it doesn't go up over time you're OK.

That's the same Ford 2.2 that was similar to the 2.4 in the old Volvo D5 which increased over time , then had a recall to resolve oil level due to fuel in oil which resulted in the ekectronic oil level indicator showing over full when checked. The Ford 2.2 was a popular engine for many manufacturers.

I'd just keep an eye on the oil level , but that's what folks should do anyway.plus if the 2.2 you'll be on an annual service too so less of an issue.

There are still people out there who don't check oil, water etc between servicing so don't notice these things.

Ford engines suffered too but historically
http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/15275-tdci-owners-check-your-oil-levels-now/

 

[TrickyT]

Have just seen this thread and done a check.

According to the computer I need a oil service in 450 miles and have 1429 miles left on the DEF.

So that will be 2 adblue refills in 10726 miles, so 5000 miles per tank, honestly thought it would be more.

I am doing about 2000 miles a month since I got the DS from new.

Regards

Trevor

The DS was looked at today.

The service technician said that the oil filter was partly blocked, which was why the message came up.

I asked why it would have been become blocked after such a short time, but he said he could not answer that.

The service indicator is now at 19600 miles, so totally out of sync with the mileage of 9500!

Trevor

 

[Charly777]

Just checking what oil is in my Disco , Castrol Edge 0 W 30 . Castrol however don't list it as trusted to perform with Land Rover :roll:

I entered my reg on the link at bottom of the Castrol page http://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/car-engine-oil/engine-oil-brands/castrol-edge/edge-product-range/edge-product-page.html to determine the best oil for my car and there was no recommendation available ! Looked at the dipstick and the oil is pitch black :ugeek:

 

[simon]

Oil will go black very quickly from what I read.

 

[Mamil]

That's a very interesting read regarding rising oil levels. It made me check my DS and this is what my dipstick look like (engine is cold and had an oil change about 2 months ago):

IMG_3352.JPG

If the oil is contaminated with diesel, will taking the car on long journeys decrease the diesel content or is changing oil the only option at this point? I havent recieved any service warning in the dash though.

The fuel dilution issues are with the Ingenium engine (as confirmed by LR in the service message to their dealers copied above) and as you have the Ford/PSA engine I wouldn't worry.

It was probably just overfilled by the dealer - the same happened to me at the last service.

If you want to make sure, just keep an eye on the level and if it doesn't go up over time you're OK.

That's the same Ford 2.2 that was similar to the 2.4 in the old Volvo D5 which increased over time , then had a recall to resolve oil level due to fuel in oil which resulted in the ekectronic oil level indicator showing over full when checked. The Ford 2.2 was a popular engine for many manufacturers.

I'd just keep an eye on the oil level , but that's what folks should do anyway.plus if the 2.2 you'll be on an annual service too so less of an issue.

There are still people out there who don't check oil, water etc between servicing so don't notice these things.

Ford engines suffered too but historically
http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/15275-tdci-owners-check-your-oil-levels-now/

Good bit of scaremongering there Barnsh , but as VDS has explained, the oil dilution problem is a result of the specific combination of an engine, its DFP subsystem, and the engine management software that controls the frequency, duration, and volume of fuel injection during an active DPF burn - ie. the whole system. So, for example the Ingenium in the DS, Evoque, RR/RRS, and D5 has the problem, but the same basic unit in the XF and XE doesn't. So no, I don't think there's any relevance that some Fords and Volvos with "similar" engines to the Ford/PSA unit in the DS have had oil dilution problems.

Now, if the Freelander 2 had problems I'd be more worried because that had the same engine 'system' as I have in my DS, but I'm not aware of any such issues, and LR themselves have narrowed the problem down to a few specific models with the Ingenium engine.

But, I still don't take anything for granted (blame my time working with large marine diesels for my an@l approach to engine oil ) , and have actually had my oil independently analysed like VDS, but thankfully the result was that there is zero fuel contamination, which does give me some confidence that the Ford/PSA unit isn't affected. Still, as I've said on other threads, I think modern car diesels do have a very tough time of it with start/stop, turbocharging, EGR, DPF etc, so as a matter of course I change my oil and filter every six months/10,000kms regardless of the manufacturers recommended service intervals.

 

[Mamil]

Just checking what oil is in my Disco , Castrol Edge 0 W 30 . Castrol however don't list it as trusted to perform with Land Rover :roll:

I entered my reg on the link at bottom of the Castrol page http://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/car-engine-oil/engine-oil-brands/castrol-edge/edge-product-range/edge-product-page.html to determine the best oil for my car and there was no recommendation available ! Looked at the dipstick and the oil is pitch black :ugeek:

Landrover use Castrol Edge Professional which is only available through the trade, ie. your Landrover dealer

Whether there is actually any difference between the standard Castrol Edge available to all and sundry, and Professional only available to the trade, I don't know, and when I asked Castrol they wouldn't tell me :x But, I suspect it may just be a 'marketing' thing to get us to buy our oil through the dealer because the warranty is only valid if you've used the correct oil :roll:

And yes, diesel oil will very rapidly go black. The oil holds the soot in suspension to stop it forming sludge in the engine, so ostensibly by being black you know it's doing it's job. However, modern diesels with EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) systems like our DS engines do get dirtier because sooty exhaust gasses are recirculated through the engine air intake to reduce Nox emissions, and the soot ends up in the oil :roll: It's just one of the penalties we pay for having 'clean' diesel engines, and another reason why I think it's crazy for JLR to extend the oil change intervals for the Ingenium engines :?

 

[screech]

I've just had a chat with the service department in Warsaw. They had no idea this was an issue with Ingenium, they only heard about RR being affected with the 3 litre diesel. And the RR bulletin was sent out only last week. As for the DS - I handed my copy of the N010/N025 bulletin and the guy started reading and reading and reading...

To cut the long story short, they didn't have a clue, I got my car booked in for the updates end of August, they will no doubt by that time learn what has to be done and verify with the steps shown in the bulletin whether my car needs an oil change or not. If it does, I am honestly going to request free oil changes every other six months, as the reason why I went for a LR diesel was the bi-annual service cost instead of annual.

By the way - they still haven't heard of any updates regarding the freezing temperature sensor...

 

[VeryDiscoSport]

The DS was looked at today.

The service technician said that the oil filter was partly blocked, which was why the message came up.

I asked why it would have been become blocked after such a short time, but he said he could not answer that.

The service indicator is now at 19600 miles, so totally out of sync with the mileage of 9500!

Trevor

Have a read through the SCN. Until N025 has been rolled out they have to reset all 3 counters so your mileage and days to go are no longer valid. They should have told you to take it back when the first of these three things occur:

1) The odometer reaches 21000 miles
2) The date is 2 years from date of first registration
3) The Service Warning message appears.

 

[VeryDiscoSport]

Just checking what oil is in my Disco , Castrol Edge 0 W 30 . Castrol however don't list it as trusted to perform with Land Rover :roll:

I entered my reg on the link at bottom of the Castrol page http://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/car-engine-oil/engine-oil-brands/castrol-edge/edge-product-range/edge-product-page.html to determine the best oil for my car and there was no recommendation available ! Looked at the dipstick and the oil is pitch black :ugeek:

The Spec in my hand-book is SAE 0W30 ACEA C2 (or STJLR.03.5007)

When I checked this a while ago I discovered that only the Castrol Edge Professional 0W-30 C2 meets STJLR.03.5007

ACEA C2 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPa*s.

The Titanium and FST Castrol Edge oils appear to be SAE 0W-30 ACEA C3

ACEA C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPa*s

Looks as though the C3 wouldn't be acceptable...? But I could have got that round the wrong way.

 

[sceptre123]

Whats wrong with something like this?

TOTAL Quartz Ineo First 0w30

This is a common spec and come up on search engines under the DS 2.0 ... The sec seems right too...

 

[VeryDiscoSport]

Whats wrong with something like this?

TOTAL Quartz Ineo First 0w30

This is a common spec and come up on search engines under the DS 2.0 ... The sec seems right too...

It's only the second oil I've seen that meets STJLR.03.5007. If I ever need to buy my own I would seriously think of using this.

http://www.total-distributor-partners.com/media/104384/total_quartz_ineo_first_0w-30_7bj_201705_en.pdf

 

[Barnsh]

The fuel dilution issues are with the Ingenium engine (as confirmed by LR in the service message to their dealers copied above) and as you have the Ford/PSA engine I wouldn't worry.

It was probably just overfilled by the dealer - the same happened to me at the last service.

If you want to make sure, just keep an eye on the level and if it doesn't go up over time you're OK.

That's the same Ford 2.2 that was similar to the 2.4 in the old Volvo D5 which increased over time , then had a recall to resolve oil level due to fuel in oil which resulted in the ekectronic oil level indicator showing over full when checked. The Ford 2.2 was a popular engine for many manufacturers.

I'd just keep an eye on the oil level , but that's what folks should do anyway.plus if the 2.2 you'll be on an annual service too so less of an issue.

There are still people out there who don't check oil, water etc between servicing so don't notice these things.

Ford engines suffered too but historically
http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/15275-tdci-owners-check-your-oil-levels-now/

Good bit of scaremongering there Barnsh , but as VDS has explained, the oil dilution problem is a result of the specific combination of an engine, its DFP subsystem, and the engine management software that controls the frequency, duration, and volume of fuel injection during an active DPF burn - ie. the whole system. So, for example the Ingenium in the DS, Evoque, RR/RRS, and D5 has the problem, but the same basic unit in the XF and XE doesn't. So no, I don't think there's any relevance that some Fords and Volvos with "similar" engines to the Ford/PSA unit in the DS have had oil dilution problems.

Now, if the Freelander 2 had problems I'd be more worried because that had the same engine 'system' as I have in my DS, but I'm not aware of any such issues, and LR themselves have narrowed the problem down to a few specific models with the Ingenium engine.

But, I still don't take anything for granted (blame my time working with large marine diesels for my an@l approach to engine oil ) , and have actually had my oil independently analysed like VDS, but thankfully the result was that there is zero fuel contamination, which does give me some confidence that the Ford/PSA unit isn't affected. Still, as I've said on other threads, I think modern car diesels do have a very tough time of it with start/stop, turbocharging, EGR, DPF etc, so as a matter of course I change my oil and filter every six months/10,000kms regardless of the manufacturers recommended service intervals.

No scaremongering at all , as I stated clearly this was historical.

As you may or may not know manufacturers use different ways of injecting the diesil to the DPF for the burn, some use direct injection to the exhaust for DPF and others to save money and be more efficient ( which is key nowadays) inject the fuel through the cylinder , the latter is more prone to fuel going down the cylinders. Called in cylinder injection.
https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/dpf_sys_fuel.php

The xj2.7 also had thevoil rising issue. As did xf
http://www.jaguarforum.com/showthread.php?t=42185

As I said it's common sense to check your oil level. I change mine too at 10k but miles.

 

[BobbyBox]

Hi
This thread makes for very interesting reading.
Having had some 35+ issues with my DS over time I'm not sure how to proceed with this one.
It was serviced at 21k miles (no dash indication that it needed one, I requested it as per the published service schedule)
I have subsequently had the Q627v4 - No 'Engine Service' Message Displayed In The Message Center fix applied.
However, I had also asked for N010v5 - 'Service Required' Message Not Displayed to be done also. It has not been done as it is still showing as an outstanding campaign on topix some months later.
I'm thinking hold fire until N025 is active for the DS and then book it in for it to be sorted once and for all?
The DS is now approaching 35k miles having never displayed any kind of service indicator. It's only oil change was at the 21k service. Do I assume it's fine ? (in the event the engine were to fail, I'd hope I have a good case for JLR to pick up the tab entirely if it can be shown that excessive diesel in the oil is to blame?) I think it's a bad situation as my model year has no place in the menu system to display mileage to next service anyway, we are to rely on service messages popping up (which of course they don't as there is a software fault).

Forum wisdom as ever, gratefully received.

BB

 

[VeryDiscoSport]

Hi
This thread makes for very interesting reading.
Having had some 35+ issues with my DS over time I'm not sure how to proceed with this one.
It was serviced at 21k miles (no dash indication that it needed one, I requested it as per the published service schedule)
I have subsequently had the Q627v4 - No 'Engine Service' Message Displayed In The Message Center fix applied.
However, I had also asked for N010v5 - 'Service Required' Message Not Displayed to be done also. It has not been done as it is still showing as an outstanding campaign on topix some months later.
I'm thinking hold fire until N025 is active for the DS and then book it in for it to be sorted once and for all?
The DS is now approaching 35k miles having never displayed any kind of service indicator. It's only oil change was at the 21k service. Do I assume it's fine ? (in the event the engine were to fail, I'd hope I have a good case for JLR to pick up the tab entirely if it can be shown that excessive diesel in the oil is to blame?) I think it's a bad situation as my model year has no place in the menu system to display mileage to next service anyway, we are to rely on service messages popping up (which of course they don't as there is a software fault).

Forum wisdom as ever, gratefully received.

BB

Personally I think your engine is high risk and I wouldn't dream of going to 42K without some intervention. If it was me I would call CRC, explain all you just said and request an oil and filter change as a precaution under the spirit of JLRP00100. They would quickly identify you as a qualifying case because it doesn't appear that you have anything to warn of high dilution.

I would also ask for a sample of the oil that they drain out and invest £30 in a laboratory analysis to get some indication of the current state of the engine after all it's had to endure. My guess is that you would be near or above the 6.1% trigger point already with the current mileage and, imho, there's no way you could have got to 21K on the initial charge of oil without going well above the safe level of dilution. My comments are based on having read dozens if accounts on here and the Evoque forum, plus the hard evidence obtained from my own engine which had the oil changed under the campaign at a mere 5600 miles. Read my lab reports in Tech->Engine & Drivetrain and extrapolate the results seen at 5600 miles to 21000 miles. That's practically FOUR times as much driving....

 

[Barnsh]

Hi
This thread makes for very interesting reading.
Having had some 35+ issues with my DS over time I'm not sure how to proceed with this one.
It was serviced at 21k miles (no dash indication that it needed one, I requested it as per the published service schedule)
I have subsequently had the Q627v4 - No 'Engine Service' Message Displayed In The Message Center fix applied.
However, I had also asked for N010v5 - 'Service Required' Message Not Displayed to be done also. It has not been done as it is still showing as an outstanding campaign on topix some months later.
I'm thinking hold fire until N025 is active for the DS and then book it in for it to be sorted once and for all?
The DS is now approaching 35k miles having never displayed any kind of service indicator. It's only oil change was at the 21k service. Do I assume it's fine ? (in the event the engine were to fail, I'd hope I have a good case for JLR to pick up the tab entirely if it can be shown that excessive diesel in the oil is to blame?) I think it's a bad situation as my model year has no place in the menu system to display mileage to next service anyway, we are to rely on service messages popping up (which of course they don't as there is a software fault).

Forum wisdom as ever, gratefully received.

BB

Personally I think your engine is high risk and I wouldn't dream of going to 42K without some intervention. If it was me I would call CRC, explain all you just said and request an oil and filter change as a precaution under the spirit of JLRP00100. They would quickly identify you as a qualifying case because it doesn't appear that you have anything to warn of high dilution.

I would also ask for a sample of the oil that they drain out and invest £30 in a laboratory analysis to get some indication of the current state of the engine after all it's had to endure. My guess is that you would be near or above the 6.1% trigger point already with the current mileage and, imho, there's no way you could have got to 21K on the initial charge of oil without going well above the safe level of dilution. My comments are based on having read dozens if accounts on here and the Evoque forum, plus the hard evidence obtained from my own engine which had the oil changed under the campaign at a mere 5600 miles. Read my lab reports in Tech->Engine & Drivetrain and extrapolate the results seen at 5600 miles to 21000 miles. That's practically FOUR times as much driving....

I'd agree with VDS get a sample for analysis so you have proof of the contamination level . At least you are covered for any damage due to no warning lights being shown.

 

[Barnsh]

For anyone trying to get their head round why we get soot and diesil into the oil here's a pretty good explanation and diagrams on how the system works. Including EGR , DPF and in cylinder diesil injection on the exhaust timing in the combustion chamber.

 

[Chippy]

It may already have been mentioned on here so apologies if it has but for me one of the most concerning things about this problem is the potential number of vehicles involved across, as far as I can make out, all LR models using the Ingenium engine and the usual LR way of playing it down and passing the buck to he owner (depending on driving style of course!)

I'm just wondering how long it will take before Velar owners start he discussion whereby they don't seem to have up until now.

I'll not be investing any money in sample analysis I'd rather spend it directly on fresh oil.

 

[Mamil]

For anyone trying to get their head round why we get soot and diesil into the oil here's a pretty good explanation and diagrams on how the system works. Including EGR , DPF and in cylinder diesil injection on the exhaust timing in the combustion chamber.

Good find - explains it really well!

Got a good laugh from some of the comments underneath it too - obviously don't have a swear filter on that site :lol:

 

[Mamil]

No scaremongering at all , as I stated clearly this was historical.

Don't doubt the historical facts of oil dilution problems with various Ford and Volvo models. The 'scaremongering' I was referring to was then linking this to the DS by saying...

That's the same Ford 2.2 that was similar to the 2.4 in the old Volvo D5 which increased over time , then had a recall to resolve oil level due to fuel in oil which resulted in the ekectronic oil level indicator showing over full when checked. The Ford 2.2 was a popular engine for many manufacturers

That's a clear attempt at guilt by association, whereas there's no evidence I can find that the Ford/PSA unit as used in the Freelander 2 and DS has ever suffered from fuel dilution problems.

 

[Charly777]

I took my car in up get N010 done in April but it's still showing as an outstanding campaign in Topix. Do I need to get Q627 V4 and N010 V5 done also, none of these two are showing up in outstanding campaigns?