[Guest]

Totally immoral and deceitful though that they ask you to sign such a declaration before you drive away from the showroom rather than when you place the order. :evil:

 

[PhilMabbots17]

Just one thing to be aware of as your is a 2016.....the 2016 brochure which is linked on this forum clearly states the vehicle would do 21000 miles without service , saving you inconvenience and money. If you show your dealer you have a copy he may realise he hasn't thought this through. You have an Official JLR brochure that states this for your model year. This then would be misrepresentation by JLR.

Can't find a brochue for your year? Anyone who has bought one of these cars at any time during the last 3 years and genuinely feels that they were misled about the servicing intervals might want to print off a copy of this current JLR web page which continues to claim lowered running costs due to extended service intervals. This might help to counter the disclaimer and the clever word-smithing being used to conceal the fault and its misrepesentation.

Pricing for the Discovery Sport featuring Ingenium engines remains unchanged whilst the new TD4 150HP engine brings a lower starting price of £30,695 for the manual five seat 'SE' trim. Across the range service intervals have been extended from 16,000 to 21,000 miles lowering running costs over the vehicle's lifetime. This coupled with the financial benefits from lower tax and reduced fuel costs, reflects real-world savings for the customer. Furthermore, a number of retail finance options are available allowing customers to step into a new Discovery Sport from £299 per month for the entry-level SE specification.

First person with the abiliy to do so might want to screen-grab the whole page and post it here in case it gets deleted.

 

[Zedman]

Totally immoral and deceitful though that they ask you to sign such a declaration before you drive away from the showroom rather than when you place the order. :evil:

I had to sign the same document for the lease of the companies Ford Transit and I know of other people having to sign one for leased cars so it is not mutual to JLR.

 

[CRC@LandRover]

I might look at rejecting the vehicle under misrepresentation or poor quality if JLR refuse to cover oil change costs after March - I still have the original 2016 brochure which states the service intervals.

Next step is JLR customer services then legal advice if no joy.

Good Afternoon Snoopyhaynes

I am sorry to learn of your comments.

If there is any way I can assist you please PM me with the following details:

Your Vehicle Identification Number
Your Personal contact details

Many Thanks

Dan - Land Rover UK

 

[Natsweeb]

When I got mine back from new brakes, new balance shafts etc the vehicle information says 4500 to next service, 4900 to Adblue fill.
Is this a bit like "Distance to empty" and can get longer as you drive I wonder?
This technology is amazing. My 1972 88" series 3 truck just soldiers on with services at defined mileages.. How did they do it way back then?
The engines were less efficient and the particles were like tadpoles, and fall down are washed away in the rain!

 

[Natsweeb]

Apologies if this appears twice as I submitted similar message but it has not appeared.

My oil service was done last Monday and at the same time balancer shafts replaced. The Service warning appeared just before the shafts squealed.
After this work I checked and the screen told me I would need another oil service in 4500.
Has the interval been shortened yet again? Or is this evidence of an admission that dilution is causing engine damage?

 

[Dashnine]

Apologies if this appears twice as I submitted similar message but it has not appeared.

My oil service was done last Monday and at the same time balancer shafts replaced. The Service warning appeared just before the shafts squealed.
After this work I checked and the screen told me I would need another oil service in 4500.
Has the interval been shortened yet again? Or is this evidence of an admission that dilution is causing engine damage?

What was the Oil Service warning showing before the oil was changed? Maybe they have forgotten to reset the warning?

 

[Natsweeb]

It was down to 1500 an they did a reset.

 

[Barnsh]

It was down to 1500 an they did a reset.

We had a discussion on this bfore somewhere , whereby the reset value after an interim oil change seemed to relate to the Callander time left for the next service as well. When is your next full service due?

 

[Natsweeb]

Interestingly, after a run of just over 100 miles, the next oil service due only fell by 50 miles. The distance to Adblue fill actually increased.
Full service is due in June this year.
Are these mileages actually set by the dealer?
My mpg seems to have dropped noticeably.

 

[Barnsh]

Interestingly, after a run of just over 100 miles, the next oil service due only fell by 50 miles. The distance to Adblue fill actually increased.
Full service is due in June this year.
Are these mileages actually set by the dealer?
My mpg seems to have dropped noticeably.

With full service due in June that would fit in with others experiences before.
It's set by the dealer to some figure they calculate but takes into consideration time left to service.
At the one year point mine was sett to 10,500 , some one else with 10 months left was reset to 9800.
So your fits into this area, it would be good to find out what decides the setting they adjust it to, it's got to be some mathematical calculation.

After reset mine didn't drop properly for the first 500 , some days it dropped further than others doing the same 75 mile run, all a bit random.

 

[PhilMabbots17]

Interestingly, after a run of just over 100 miles, the next oil service due only fell by 50 miles. The distance to Adblue fill actually increased.
Full service is due in June this year.
Are these mileages actually set by the dealer?
My mpg seems to have dropped noticeably.

With full service due in June that would fit in with others experiences before.
It's set by the dealer to some figure they calculate but takes into consideration time left to service.
At the one year point mine was sett to 10,500 , some one else with 10 months left was reset to 9800.
So your fits into this area, it would be good to find out what decides the setting they adjust it to, it's got to be some mathematical calculation.

After reset mine didn't drop properly for the first 500 , some days it dropped further than others doing the same 75 mile run, all a bit random.

Random is the right word. I didn't think to check the IC when I picked up my new car, mainly because I didn't know at the time that I had been the victim of a misrepresentation. But after 5 weeks, during which I'd covered nearly 2,000 miles of mostly M-way driving, I saw the service indicator for the first time - and it had reduced by over 5,000 miles!

 

[Ian_S]

They did it by guesswork mostly, and much simpler technology that didn't have to worry that much about emissions. So just burn the fuel to make it go, spit the rest out of the exhaust and keep it simple so it's easy to fix. If it's easy to fix people see it as a project and quirky. When it gets to 100k on an old motor you almost expect a rebuild, all part of the 'fun' of a classic motor.

As for @snoopyhanyes, if you're on a lease you don't own the car, and will be handing it back, so long term durability isn't your issue unless you want to purchase the car at the end of the lease. To that end, if you are handing it back I'd say the likelihood of it grenading itself before then is very small. However, if that was to happen, as long as you have serviced the car as directed by the manufacturer schedule and car notifications, you can't be accused of abusing the car. It's not hard to find evidence that the oil dilution problem exists, so I would make the problem the leasing companies problem, as the car would be of unfit quality, and the problem almost certainly existed at the point of manufacture too.

I suspect rejecting the car now might be difficult, but in the highly unlikely event of a major engine failure in the final year, I would hope there's enough evidence and still leverage with the lease company to get it sorted without having to foot the bill yourself.

Whilst everyone who has an Ingenium diesel has oil dilution, so far the number of catastrophic failures seem to be few. You have also had interim oil changes to date, and if you took the cost of one yourself, that would probably leave your engine in better shape than one that had been blindly run to 21k regardless. Year 4 ownership is now in progress so we'll see if the issue starts to cause more serious out of warranty issues with increasing frequency or not.

 

[PhilMabbots17]

As above 👍

However, when it comes to rejection over this issue, "difficult" takes on a new and subtly different meaning. Over 700,000 D8 cars have now been built with the faulty exhaust plus a good proportion out of 536,000 other affected models built since September 2015 are 3.0L diesels covered by JLRP00100 (source = JLR sales figures) available for download at https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/2016/reports-and-financial-downloads . We don't know how many 16MY and later 3.0L diesels there are, but it doesn't really matter - the publicly available figures show that at least 800,000 vehicles - possibly over a million - are affected. That's the 5 models described by JLRP00100, plus the E-pace. A lot is at stake here.

Theoretically, therefore, any one out of 800,000 owners with a faulty diesel exhaust could sue JLR at the point when they refuse to accept a rejection made on the basis of "not as described" or "not of satisfactory quality". It would be expensive to start with but, based on what is now known about this issue, technical expert witnesses would have no difficulty showing that, on the balance of probabilities (the civil level of proof required in England and Wales), JLR sold the vehicle knowing full well that it wouldn't make the nominal service intervals due to documented engineering deficiencies. The consequences to JLR of losing just one case would include the triggering of an immediate avalanche of me-too claimants coming forward and the company could then be driven into a corner from which it might not be able to emerge: a group legal action (class action) is therefore not too difficult to imagine. But JLR would never allow that to happen, provided that the rejections keep coming at it just one at a time. The flip side should be that a real and determined threat to take the matter to court will always be successful before the hearing, otherwise they would be rolling the dice on a bet that the manufacturer literally couldn't afford to lose. No one who has threatened legal action has had any difficuly getting their money back from what we've seen.

If you go the other way and try arguing your case with them or the supplying dealership, then appealing to the motor ombudsman when they refuse to concede ground or taking the matter to the financial ombudsman for Black Horse / JLR Financial Services, they'll quite happily take you over the hurdles for up to a year or more. You might win in the end or you might not. Sometimes, they will just use the extended process to waste time or wear down the owner in the expectation that a significant proportion will just give up (read townandcountry posts passim). But JLR doesn't care one iota because, even when the case is found for the claimant a) the manufacturer is never named as the defendant and b) there's no system of precedent, so one successful case has no impact on any other. Unfortunately, received wisdom and common sense repeated endlessly on an anonymous forum like this has no legal standing.

The bottom line is that to them this is just business. Expecting them to 'play fair' is like, well - let's just say that you would have a better chance with the tooth fairy.

 

[snoopyhaynes]

Spoke to someone at customer service last week and they have given me guidance on how best to maximise time between oil change service, and the millage and running times/speeds to ensure proper passive regeneration. Thus avoiding excessive fuel contamination in the oil. Wish i'd had this information at point of purchase.

Shame about this issue as otherwise i love the car - apart from a few tech issues with the entertainment system it's been great.

Tested a petrol version the other day - lovely but a bit pricey. Have also booked a test in a Volvo XC40 in Feb - will report back... keeping options open for the time being.

 

[Ian_S]

Spoke to someone at customer service last week and they have given me guidance on how best to maximise time between oil change service, and the millage and running times/speeds to ensure proper passive regeneration. Thus avoiding excessive fuel contamination in the oil. Wish i'd had this information at point of purchase.

Could you share that advice?

 

[Badgerface]

It will NEVER passively regenerate, so the information that you have been given is frankly rubbish. It CANNOT passively regenerate, only ACTIVELY, which as you have no way of knowing is happening, causes the oil dilution in the first place. This also applies to vehicles that spend their entire life zipping up and down motorways - they still need an oil change between 7-9k miles, as the system layout simply does not allow it to passively regenerate properly.

If that pile of tosh is what CRC are now trotting out over the telephone to fob you off, then ask for it in writing, and their commitment to a free oil change when your vehicle calls for one prematurely. I can guarantee you that you will get neither from them!

 

[roydonaldson]

I suspect the N273 PCM control module update improves this, as after I had that applied to my car I stopped getting Amber warnings, with no change in my driving style.

 

[snoopyhaynes]

The gist is that steady driving between 40mph and 70mph for up to 20 mins will self clean the system. Should be driven like this every 300 to 900 km with engine at normal temperature.

Sounds easy but if like me most of your driving is rural this means making special trips down the motorway every couple of weeks.

This advice may have some truth tho - when i first got the car i was doing a 50 mile round trip from home to work and used A roads and motorways at least twice a week and got 16,000 miles before service. Since last March with a new job only 10 miles from home plus more short trips to school and football that's gone down to 8,000 miles between oil changes.

I'm hearing lots of similar issues with other diesel cars and vans so maybe not a LR specific problem? Guy here at work has a similar problem with his Audi.

 

[Guest]

The owner's manual is quite clear on this issue:

http://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3A/2016/T19962/17968_en_GBR/proc/G1859476

Exhaust filter

...

The self-cleaning takes place when the vehicle is driven steadily at speeds between 60 km/h to 112 km/h (40 mph to 70 mph). This process normally takes 10-20 minutes. It is possible for self-cleaning to occur at lower vehicle speeds, but the process may take a little longer at a 50 km/h (30 mph) average speed.