[Zedman]

Very entertaining!

 

[Zedman]

Jaguar Land Rover recalls 44,000 cars over carbon dioxide levels

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/13/jaguar-land-rover-recalls-cars-over-carbon-dioxide-levels?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Messenger

 

[Zedman]

Totally immoral and deceitful though that they ask you to sign such a declaration before you drive away from the showroom rather than when you place the order. :evil:

I had to sign the same document for the lease of the companies Ford Transit and I know of other people having to sign one for leased cars so it is not mutual to JLR.

 

[Zedman]

More seriously, I find out astounding that we've reached the point where a manufacturer has got things so badly wrong that customers have to provide indemnity before they're allowed to buy the product.

I see they're trying to draw a line under their exposure, but perhaps they could do that better by fixing the problem?

They have a fix, or at least a mitigation to the oil dilution. They are waiting for the patent to be approved.

But if that is just a system to ignore or overide the dilution that will potentially ruin engines.

It isn't from what I have been told.

 

[Zedman]

Do you know what the disclaimer says?

More seriously, I find out astounding that we've reached the point where a manufacturer has got things so badly wrong that customers have to provide indemnity before they're allowed to buy the product.

I see they're trying to draw a line under their exposure, but perhaps they could do that better by fixing the problem?

They have a fix, or at least a mitigation to the oil dilution. They are waiting for the patent to be approved.

 

[Zedman]

I have recently ordered a DS Landmark for March 2019, I did ask the question should I need an oil change what is the position and the salesmans reply was that as from January 2019 customers will be asked to sign a disclaimer before taking the car off the forecourt. I note the JLR100 amendment and good will gesture and a dealer claims against the warranty, what is the current viewpoint on this topic thanks in anticipation.

I think the good will oil changes must be costing a fortune. Sadly with JLR financial position from last few months it is another cost cutter.

If I could buy again now, I would go petrol due to all tye time I have wasted getting the car serviced every 6 months.

It is sad that they are now forcing customers, to pay for, what appears to be bad engineering which they cannot fix. If they still exist get the service plan. I did not and that has made it harder.

It will be interesting to see what they do when a new model comes out. I would have thought the Disco dport is a high volume seller. But I have no data to back that up.

They can fix the problem or more to the point mitigate the issue so that the engine will go 21K miles till it needs an oil change. They are waiting for a patent to be applied.

 

[Zedman]

AdBlue doesn't get into the sump; Diesel does. If the JLR Engine Designer think it's AdBlue getting into the sump then that's possibly where they're going wrong.

I suspect the patent application is simply just a modification to the service due algorithm.

Make no mistake, it's highly unlikely that this problem can be resolved without wholesale changes to the exhaust system architecture.

Sorry that was my typo, of course it is the diesel diluting the oil.

 

[Zedman]

I had a very interesting conversation with an engine designer at JLR before Christmas and he told me that the company were in the process of applying for a patent that would 'mitigate' the oil dilution problem. He was obviously cagey and wouldn't elaborate but he seemed very confident that it would stop the Adblue getting into the sump and so stopping the dilution.

 

[Zedman]

The dealer can't even get the grammar right in the letter. Not much hope for the service department performing adequately! Maybe the engineers are not able to perform to a satisfactory level till the workshop has reached an acceptable temperature!

 

[Zedman]

GS Coventry and Stratford both quote on their own website £188.

I sometimes am certain that they make it up as they go along.....I remember taking the Freelander in for its second service there and being presented with a bill for £220 MORE than I had been quoted by email the previous fortnight when making the booking. There was no argument or running off to get a managers approval, she simply reduced the invoice to match the email. Perhaps the service bints are told to charge as much as they think that they can get away with!?!

Needless to say, I stopped using them after that....

That's interesting............

 

[Zedman]

Interesting.

Particularly that an oil change at a main dealers is.......erm...£188.

Now, there's something to think about........not that I'm suggesting that dealers are as dishonest as night follows day...

I was quoted £280 at GS Coventry - not that I paid for mine!!!

 

[Zedman]

Sitting in dealership , chatting to another chap in for his service warning light.

Up pops the service advisor to advise him " no problems you car is ready, it just needed a software reset , no oil and filter needed"

He said thanks and drove off into oblivion .

Hey ho ....how many times does this happen for the unaware ??

No doubt Barnsh.

Was this a LR or Jaguar dealership?

 

[Zedman]

I recently booked a diesel DS and awaiting delivery. After looking at the kind of problems people are facing in this forum, I am a bit worried.

Would cancelling the order a knee jerk reaction? The purchase is in the UK.

I am aware the decision is mine to go ahead or not, but I am not really sure here.

If you do a lot of short journeys of less than 20-30 minutes where you're not regular getting up to at least 40mph then maybe a Euro6 diesel isn't for you (it's not just Land Rover). A petrol engined vehicle maybe better it that's the case.

Excellent advice from -9.

 

[Zedman]

Interesting article on FT today:

EU probes BMW, Daimler and VW over possible cartel behaviour
Brussels has launched a formal investigation into whether BMW, Daimler and the VW Group colluded to limit the development of clean emission technology for vehicles.
Margrethe Vestager, EU competition commissioner said: "If proven, this collusion may have denied consumers the opportunity to buy less polluting cars, despite the technology being available to the manufacturers."
Read more here

 

[Zedman]

Funnily enough -9, the JLR tech that came out to me yesterday from Gaydon arrived in an 18 plate Transit as well. It too had an oil change at 11000 miles recently, and he also advised that it drinks approx 1litre of Adblue every 300 miles. Which given the mileage that he does means a weekly/fortnightly refill.

I guess that us MY17 owners feel quite spoiled by comparison in terms of DEF range!

Yes I must admit that the Transit is using more Adblue than my DS which is quite a surprise! I keep the Adblue at work so I can see the usage!

 

[Zedman]

As a matter of interest to this thread, the driver at work has just come to notify me that the oil warning light has just come on on the company Ford Transit.
It was new in March and has just done 11,000 miles and the next service is due at 18,000 miles. Is it the same issues as the DS is experiencing?
The van does a mixture of short and long runs and has used a lot of Adblue in the 11,000 miles.
Dealer was pretty helpful and said he didn't think the oil needs changing but they would check out why the light is coming on!

 

[Zedman]

My 18 plate Evoque loaner the other week had covered around 7k and oil service was also showing zero. I mentioned it when I dropped it off and was told it's ok, they will sort it. The previous loan car was just the same, maybe they are happy to leave their cars until they get to 21k?

Yep, that was my experience a couple of weeks ago too!

 

[Zedman]

Reading the link, it seems that "Honest John" has a good understanding of the problem (probably better than most dealers). However I note his initial comment:
Firstly, every vehicle engine needs an oil and filter change at least every year or every 10,000 miles whatever the manufacturer may say. If you refuse to take that on board then don't write to me complaining.

Yes I noticed this comment too! A bit of a sweeping statement as the same Ingenium diesel in the F Pace doesn't need the oil changing at 10K on average.
Having said that a good friend of mine who is a engine designer at JLR Whitley when he knew I had ordered a DS said "Ignore the service sales blurb, make sure you get the oil changed at 10K"!

 

[Zedman]

My DS went in to GS Coventry last Friday for it's oil and filter change. Had a big discussion/argument went I dropped it off as to who would be paying for it. I went armed with all the info gleaned for the forum. She told me she would have to speak to JLR as it is payable by the customer and quoted 01/06/17 as the date of delivery as a cut off date.
When I picked up the car I was pleasantly surprised to be told there would be no charge! I asked for a dilution report and wasn't given one but told verbally that it was just over 5%. Should I have got this in writing even though I have not paid for the oil change?

Edit: Forgot to add, DS had done nearly 13K miles.

Well done on getting it for free but that dilution figure you were given was pure invention. Or, to use the technical term, a "lie". In any case chalk up another £200 to the pile of cash saved by owners due to the publication of JLRP00100.

Mine also went in last week at 14k for 2nd oil service warning, ad blue, -40 outside temp issue and bonnet catch adjustment, so getting just over 7k per oil change based on the counter. Booking the car in went something like this: Oh, early oil service warning, that's a known glitch, just needs resetting. My reply was that it was not a glitch, it was down to an imprecise algorithm based on active regenerations completed etc etc. His reply was that they had sent numerous samples to Shell for analysis and all showed low oil dilution when results came back. Fast forward to dropping the car off. Discussed the oil service issue, again challenged the 'it's a software glitch', handed over the Miller oil analysis report, (actually showed low dilution but nearing limits on Fe which I said was my main concern) and left it in their hands. On picking the car up I was advised that the oil and filter had been changed due to high oil dilution (7.1 she said), not because of the Miller oil report which is to all intents and purposes ignored (I was advised that I could discuss my Miller report with JLR CSC directly if I wanted to take it further, but hey, they changed the oil based on their readout). The thing that gets me, is that everyone seems so well rehearsed to immediately ignore/deflect any suggestion that the oil won't make it to 21k, even when shown evidence, including their own, highlighting the issues that we know that they know about. By the way, my car was ordered in May 2017 and delivered/registered 2nd week of June 2017 so falls outside the cutoff dates for 'free' oil changes specified in JLRP00100.

This was my first oil change so I guess that is not too bad considering the majority of owners such as your experience Plumpton, or maybe my driving style is far superior to yours!!!
Regarding deflecting the blame to the customer etc, I couldn't agree with you more. When I first went into the dealership with the service warning light on I had a service lady who clearly had no idea of the issues around the oil dilution and she did not know how to handle me as I had a lot of information to counter her comments.
When I took the car in for the oil change last Thursday I had a much younger service rep who had clearly been trained on how to deal with 'difficult' customers and she was like a politician and would not answer and question directly. I reckon if you are and easy going customer or don't know about the problem they assign any service rep to you but have the 'rottweiler' lined up if you are likely to cause a fuss! Having said that armed with the info from the forum I was able to back her into a corner and hence got the free oil change. It is awful though that you have to go to these lengths.

 

[Zedman]

My DS went in to GS Coventry last Friday for it's oil and filter change. Had a big discussion/argument went I dropped it off as to who would be paying for it. I went armed with all the info gleaned for the forum. She told me she would have to speak to JLR as it is payable by the customer and quoted 01/06/17 as the date of delivery as a cut off date.
When I picked up the car I was pleasantly surprised to be told there would be no charge! I asked for a dilution report and wasn't given one but told verbally that it was just over 5%. Should I have got this in writing even though I have not paid for the oil change?

Edit: Forgot to add, DS had done nearly 13K miles.