Engine failure

Faults and Technical chat for the Discovery Sport
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adep
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Engine failure

Post by adep » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:42 pm

Jaguar Landrover, is this a fair way to treat a customer, Discovery sport 2015, breaks down 1 month out of warranty, taken to main dealer, first diagnosis: there is metal swarf in the fuel filter, jlr instruct main dealer to carry out compression test, next diagnosis, cam chain stretched valves contacted pistons, new engine required, after brief negotiating jlr generously agreed to pay 90% of the cost of engine replacement, new engine fitted, they cannot get engine to run, after much playing around including replacement of new fuel pump, they then go back to the first diagnosis of metal in the filter, all of a sudden it's been miss fueled and they now withdraw the 90% offer of a verbal agreement (still legally binding), now I have to stand the cost of a new engine and replace the fuel system £24000, car only worth£18000, so my point here is, why did they go away from the contaminated fuel and replace the engine, following a process of elimination which any good technician (mechanic in old terms) would have done, they would then deduce that the fuel was contaminated before charging in to replace the engine incurring massive costs when if I knew at that stage it was down to contamination of fuel, I would have taken it from Dealer and had a recon engine fitted and have the fuel system flushed, now I am faced with un economic repair bills, I might as well walk away, jlr must take responsibility for there botched approach to this and stand the cost of the new engine or RE fit my old engine
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Re: Engine failure

Post by sodum » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:06 am

Firstly, that's real bad luck to blow an entire engine. From what you describe, I'd be tempted to go along the lines of saying that the fuel filter (as specified and fitted by JLR) is clearly unfit for purpose. It is supposed to stop that sort of debris from ever reaching the engine in the first place - hence JLR are to blame.
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Re: Engine failure

Post by The Highlander » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:35 am

Playing devils advocate, if the vehicle has been misfuelled, I can see their point and changing their mind on the contribution.

I’d find it difficult to believe you didn’t know or highly suspect this at the time the vehicle failed? If this was the cause, then you can’t expect LR to cover what was a user error, within or without the warranty. Misfuelling causes catastrophic damage to the engine if run for any length of time, so I’d have no doubt that the damage listed was seen by the garage, likewise the swarf. When bits fail, there’s debris.

When they put the new engine in and then tried to run it, I presume the contaminated fuel was the reason why it wouldn’t work and they then had to drain the tank, clean the lines and replace other parts?

I think you’ll be struggling to legally enforce the verbal agreement in the circumstances. Arguing a competent mechanic should have noticed it had been misfueled doesn’t take the onus away from you declaring it when presenting the vehicle to start with nor that replacing the engine wasn’t needed, when plainly it was.

I tend to think you presented the vehicle to the dealership after a misfuel and subsequent engine failure and crossed your fingers things would work out right for you.


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Re: Engine failure

Post by adep » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:40 am

I can catagorically say it has not been missfeuled, I am the only one that drives it, and it's always filled up from pretty much empty, it had just done a long slog on the motorway, so any missfeuling would have shown up in the running, I am not that stupid that I sling it in the garage and hope to get away with it, but that's my word agonist there's , my argument now is, if they had followed a proper course of investigation, then metal in the fuel filter would have raised alarm bells and suspicions and they should have checked back from the filter to the tank before plunging into replacing the engine, I would have then pursued a different course of action, you can get a second hand engine for £2500, this has been a nightmare car, the steering servo packed in last year, in the last 9 months it's has been in a dealer for 4months, not to mention numerous other things, the car has 62000 miles hardly expect such things with a car of this pedigree
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Re: Engine failure

Post by The Highlander » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:01 am

Well it did sound like it had been misfuelled from your first post or at the very least, LR believe it to have been so. I just can’t see them pluck this cause out of the blue.

There must be some evidence of this? Surely you denied it and questioned the garage? If not, I’d get an independent engineer to examine it and/or the failed parts and take it from there tbh.


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Re: Engine failure

Post by Badgerface » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:11 am

Good advice. And copy the SMMT in on all correspondence, including the results of the Independant inspection.

You have to bear in mind that dealers, in the main, don't really know what they are doing and guess an awful lot as well. If SDD can't give them the answer on the spot, then they just give up, make it up, blame the driver or blow smoke up your arse in the hope that you will go away.

As highlighted in another post, it comes from the top down, and the customer is left to pick up the pieces, seemingly EVERYTIME!

If you want a specific example of the Manufacturer shirking their responsibilities, then please PM me and I will share a recent experience - trust me, it's a real eye-opener of where they are headed!
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Re: Engine failure

Post by shouldvegotamerc » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:01 am

Or might their keen-eyed web spies have spotted this and passed it to Jaguar Land Rover's Legal Dept who then called Customer Service?
adep wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:35 pm
I have found that the fuel gauge is showing empty when in actual fact there is about 1.8 gal left in the tank, the milage left in the tank reading is accurate as far as it goes to the end of the gauge, I pushed on past the empty mark feeling cocky that I had about 70 miles safely in the tank, it started to run out after going up a small not to steep hill after a further 30 miles or so leaving over a gallon in the tank which is not usable, I might have got more out of it on the flat but didn't want to risk it, a total range of about 450 miles

I am disgusted frankly that JLR have produced this car for certain parts of the EU with a 54 lt tank, if you look in the spec sheet they provide a 65 lt tank with the 2.2 and a 70 lt with a petrol so its not like they cant fit it in, its certainly doing better MPG then my Freelander, the most I have had is 47mpg doing 56 on the motorway and it was still going up, 41 on a run to Scotland at 80mph, and these figures are checked properly by clocking the milage and filling up to the brim, the average mpg readout is usually 2mpg higher or as much as 7mpg higher, the Eco readout, what a joke that is, gives 63mpg when the average readout is 55mpg and its actually doing 47.

So we have cars that do less than advertised, no surprise there really I can live with that at least it is better, a small pathetic fuel tank, and a gallon that cant be got at, very disappointing and spoiling otherwise a nice car
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Re: Engine failure

Post by Barnsh » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:21 am

adep wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:40 am
I can catagorically say it has not been missfeuled, I am the only one that drives it, and it's always filled up from pretty much empty, it had just done a long slog on the motorway, so any missfeuling would have shown up in the running, I am not that stupid that I sling it in the garage and hope to get away with it, but that's my word agonist there's , my argument now is, if they had followed a proper course of investigation, then metal in the fuel filter would have raised alarm bells and suspicions and they should have checked back from the filter to the tank before plunging into replacing the engine, I would have then pursued a different course of action, you can get a second hand engine for £2500, this has been a nightmare car, the steering servo packed in last year, in the last 9 months it's has been in a dealer for 4months, not to mention numerous other things, the car has 62000 miles hardly expect such things with a car of this pedigree
If you have the receipt for the fuel you bought.
You have the mileage you’ve driven since that fill up.

Can’t see how the garage can say you missfueled it then drov xxx miles before it dropped the engine.
You have all your journeys to the fuel station on your app showing time and date.
Match this time and date to fuel receipt.

Edit : garage may help with copy of receipt it will show litres and price paid proof of fuel type.
Further edit :🙄. Get a sample of the contaminated fuel , was the garage to blame ,,,is their fuel contaminated. If you got a full tank this would show the % diesel to petrol under test of what’s in the sample taken from your tank.
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Re: Engine failure

Post by Barnsh » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:42 am

sodum wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:06 am
Firstly, that's real bad luck to blow an entire engine. From what you describe, I'd be tempted to go along the lines of saying that the fuel filter (as specified and fitted by JLR) is clearly unfit for purpose. It is supposed to stop that sort of debris from ever reaching the engine in the first place - hence JLR are to blame.
I’d guess fuel went to engine , engine started breaking up , remember unused excess fuel in a diesel is sent back to the tank via. Swirlpool ....so returning fuel to tank contained debri , only then to be sucked back up through the fuel filter to the engine.

This hot diesel back through swirlpool to tank is was causes the missting on refuelling at tank filler .
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Re: Engine failure

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:00 pm

If they found metal in the fuel filter it can only have come in the first instance from the tank, the fuel lines or the LP fuel pump; it can't have anything to do with the internals of the engine because all the fuel that makes it past the injectors ends up going down the exhaust. If the chain had stretched to the point of interference then that was not caused by swarf in the fuel filter. More likely that the chain finally let go due to poor lubrication over a long period of time. First thing on the agenda must be to seize back the old engine in order to get it inspected pronto by DEKRA. Once the true state of the engine has been impartially assessed, you can decide how to proceed. Tread very carefully and good luck.
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