DPF Fault !!!!!

Faults and Technical chat for the Discovery Sport
keeven
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by keeven » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:30 pm

hi NoDiscoSport , thank you for your reply. Yes, I am in the UK. I bought this car 6 month old. How can I reject it ?
I called JLR customer service today, they asked me to send over my car reg certificate (V5C) by email then they can investigate the case.
I sent them the email as below:

My concerns are:
1. There is no explicit guideline published by JLR about the "driving style". In one year's time my car has been sent back to dealer several times for repairing, this is unacceptable from the user's view. Since last time I visited the dealer for repairing, I have been following the advice to drive regularly on motorway. I mainly drive in the town, but do 100miles journey on motorway every 1 or 2 weeks. just before the I drove to Cambridge on 27/09 and to Oxford on 29/09. I don't think the DPF should become full so quickly. JLR should never blame the driver's "driving style". In fact this car produced by JLR has affected my life style. I have to worry about the DPF all the time and have to do some unnecessary motorway journeys to maintain the car.
2. This time the DPF warning from amber to red is too short to take action. It is agreed by the road assistance engineer. It is not realistic for me go to my office late or pick up my kids late because I need to do the DPF regeneration immediately once the amber warning is on. This is a product fault or design fault.
3. The dealer replaced the DPF without my authorisation then ask me for the money. At the beginning the service adviser only mentioned they need to order a new DPF to diagnose the fault. He didn't tell me that it is not covered by the warranty. He tried to say that they have to put the new part on to see if the warning was caused by other issues, and it proved the DPF was the reason. I understand that it is a diagnosis process, however once the root cause is clear, they should ask me if I agree to pay for it. If they asked me, I would not agree to replace it because it is expensive. I would rather ask them to put the faulty part back then I would go to another garage for a second opinion. The dealer didn't ask for my authorisation but ask for money straight away.
2017 DS HSE TD4-180 6 speed Manual


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by NoDiscoSport » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:08 pm

keeven wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:30 pm
hi NoDiscoSport , thank you for your reply. Yes, I am in the UK. I bought this car 6 month old. How can I reject it ?
I called JLR customer service today, they asked me to send over my car reg certificate (V5C) by email then they can investigate the case.
I sent them the email as below:
1. The right of rejection in law.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 (hereinafter "CRA 2015") provides consumers with a statutory right to reject a car for three broad reasons:

1) With respect to the price paid, any description of the car (sales particulars, advertising, brochures, etc) and according to the standards that a reasonable person would apply, the car must be of "satisfactory quality" (s.9 CRA 2015). The car must be fit for the purpose for which cars are normally sold, be free from minor defects and blemishes and it must be safe to drive; it must also show "durability" when being used for the purpose for which it was sold. Your right to reject for these reasons is removed if relevant matters were specifically drawn to your attention before you bought the car or the dealer allowed you to examine the car before you bought it and your inspection ought to have revealed something relevant.

2) The car must be reasonably "fit for purpose" (s.10 CRA 2015); therefore, it must be capable of doing what cars generally are capable of doing, i.e. transporting people and their belongings from place to place using the country's highways and by-ways. A reasonable person is entitled to assume that, unless specifically pointed out to them by the vendor, no limitations pertain to their use of the vehicle, so journeys can be as frequent or infrequent, or as long or short, as they require to go about their daily business. If the dealer had made someone aware before a sale that there were limitations on journey pattern, or driving style in general, this would impinge on this right of rejection.

Car dealers have previously tried to push the responsibility for knowing in advance about the generalised "DPF issue" onto owners, but it should be difficult for them to do this unless they can show that they were pro-active in raising the buyer's awareness. Nowhere does it say that consumers have a statutory responsibility to know anything! On the contrary, videos like this one and web-page information like this illustrate the vendors' awareness of their responsibility to make buyers aware of the trade-offs between petrol and diesel (especially the risks associated with DPFs) - not the other way round. Look at the date on the video though: February 2018. Perhaps a case of bolting the stable door after the horse has galloped away...?

3) The car must be "as described", i.e. it must match the description provided in the brochure, or on the vendor's web-site, and accord with any verbal description made by the salesman or any of his agents before the sale was made (s.11 CRA 2015). This right of rejection is particularly suitable for people who bought a 16MY or 17MY Discovery sport genuinely believing that the service interval was going to be 21,000 miles, only to discover later that, due to a known fault (see this post containing a link to JLRP00100 ) in the exhaust architecture, their car would need up to two additional oil services between the published service intervals. An important clause in s.11(5) CRA 2015 is that the dealer can't make changes to any of the information afterwards unless the change is expressly agreed between the parties. By accepting the free oil services a DS owner has NOT agreed to a change in the description of the car. The oil changes are being performed in order to limit potential damage to the engine while JLR engineering works towards providing a proper fix that eliminates premature oil dilution.

In a nutshell, that is the UK legal framework (as I understand it) which creates the right to reject a Discovery Sport.

2. Timeframes for rejection.

There are the various timeframes for rejection to consider. The approach is different depending on whether the rejection is initiated:
a) up to 30 days after purchase;
b) up to 6 months after purchase; and,
c) up to 6 years after purchase.

Rather than re-invent the wheel, I suggest that you look what Which has to say about the time element contained within CRA 2015.

3. Known Faults on the Discovery Sport
There are several known faults, i.e. JLRP00100, Premature Red DPF warning, Faulty SCRFs marked FB,.... etc. which are appropriate to quote depending on the particular circumstances of a proposed rejection. When time permits I'll complete a trawl of the forum to bring everything I can find into one place. In the meantime, I suggest using the Search field in the top left hand corner of this web-page to locate particular thread topics.

4. The rejection process.

Go to this thread for some very useful information about how one owner rejected his Dicovery Sport using the Financial Ombudsman scheme.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


Greig25
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Greig25 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:34 pm

My DPF fault has been repaired under warranty. However they are now telling me that I need a filter and oil change, my car is only 6 month old with 5000 miles. This will be at a cost or around 200 and to be paid by me. Anyone else had this issue after DPF fault??


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Badgerface
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Badgerface » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:59 pm

They should have changed the oil and filter at the time of DPF replacement as a process of fault elimination.

Quote the usual bulletin at them and tell them to get in with it, or find another dealer.
MY17 HSE Luxury TD4 Ingenium 180ps - Aintree Green with Black Pack/ICTP/825w Meridian Audio
MY13 HSE Luxury FL2 2.2 SD4 190ps - Baltic Blue with NO Oil dilution issues whatsoever!
MY12 HSE FL2. 2.2 SD4 190ps - Sumatra Black - Gone


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by NoDiscoSport » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:51 pm

Greig25 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:34 pm
My DPF fault has been repaired under warranty. However they are now telling me that I need a filter and oil change, my car is only 6 month old with 5000 miles. This will be at a cost or around 200 and to be paid by me. Anyone else had this issue after DPF fault??
Hi Greig

How frequently have you seen the amber DPF warning before this time?
Did you always clear it yourself and, if so, how?
Have you ever reported it to the dealer previously?
You do on average about 190 miles a week. Can you describe in general terms how this is made up.
What did they actually do to effect the "repair", i.e. was it a forced regen, a new DPF, or something else?
Did they tell you why the oil and filter require changing at 5,000 miles?
If you can't answer these two questions you must without delay approach the dealer carrying out the work to obtain a clear, detailed description of the work done and the work they say is still required. Obtain a written price for anything they say that you will have to pay for.
Have you seen anything yourself on the dashboard to indicate that a service is due?
Do you have a service plan and, if so, what services are written into the terms and conditions?
Do you know how to obtain a copy of the document JLRP00100?
Who was the supplying dealer?
How did you pay for the car? Was it cash or some form of credit agreement?
Did you discuss your proposed use of the car with the dealer before you bought it?
What was your honest expectation of the service interval when you bought the car?
Why did you think that? For example, was it something you read, or something you were told?

That is a lot of questions, I know. But you are in a potentially serious position with respect to this vehicle and your best choice of action now depends on, amongst other things, these matters. The hard fact of life here could be that you have bought the wrong car for your needs and will therefore need to act promptly and precisely from this point in order to protect your financial interests.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


cherlaan
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by cherlaan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:25 pm

Dear All

I had posted on Car Expert's website yesterday as I am at the end of my tether with my 17 plate Evoque and a member there very kindly suggested I join this forum as the Discovery Sport's had the same problem. I have copied my post below and I sincerely hope someone can help me or tell me what to do next as after having my conversation with JLR on Wednesday evening I felt it was my fault for deciding to lease the Evoque and I had nowhere to turn....here is my post

I have a March 2017 plate Diesel Evoque (biggest mistake ever made in my life!) - taken out on a Personal Contract with a 5,000 mile/year lease deal (this alone should have notified the leasing company that I wouldn't be doing a lot of motorway miles). I live in a semi-rural area with a few 30/40 mile a hour speed cameras dotted around and mainly use the car for school runs, supermarket shopping - not much else as work from home. The car seemed fine from March to December - I used to occasionally get the amber warning light notifying me that the DPF was nearly full and to take the car for a run, which I would do and the car would then be okay, but then something changed and it certainly wasn't my driving style (which like all the rest of you I have been told numerous times by JLR, is the cause of Evoque's DPF getting full).

My car went into the dealership December 2017 as the amber turned to red within a day, had a forced regen done and the car was back home again. Now 10 months down the line, on the third DPF system, 4 forced regens and the car doesn't even bother going to amber now - it only goes to red so I have now no way of knowing when I need to take the car on a motorway run (a journey which I am having to fund in time and fuel as it is not part of my lifestyle requirement).

I have raised my concerns with the leasing company (who have stated that the finance company are not interested - the issue needs to be raised with JLR). I have spoken to the dealership, where my car regularly frequents, for advice how to go forward - again referred me to JLR. So I contacted JLR Customer Service who told me I would be assigned a Case Manager. I have been issued a case number and was contacted yesterday via a representative who has told me that all the information regarding the DPF system is on their website and in the handbook (if I would like to read it - not!). The fault is mine due to my driving style - it was the wrong car choice and predominantly I am ultimately to blame as I decided to get a diesel as opposed to petrol - the car is not deemed defective - apparently the exhaust is not getting to the heat required to burn off the soot, hence I am not getting an amber warning light and it is immediately going to red.

I now feel as though I am basically on my own with this - I am paying for a car which is the most unreliable car ever - the whole purpose of renewing vehicles on a personal contract is to have hassle free motoring - not troublesome motoring. I have had other cars with DPF systems fitted - never had this problem with any other makes, just Land Rover.

Has anyone managed to get anything sorted who have had similar experiences as I don't know where to go from here - my ultimate quest is to move from the diesel to a petrol but am tied into a four year contract - any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Many Thanks
Rachael


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Badgerface
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Badgerface » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:51 pm

Hello Rachael,

Sorry but not surprised to hear of your ongoing woes. There are many on here that have/have had similar issues to yourself.

There will no doubt be a plethora of information from others heading your way, but the obvious place to start is with the supplying dealer - your contract is with them, not JLR themselves.

Can I assume that this is leased via Land Rover Financial Services, t/a Black Horse? If so, then there is some very interesting reading in the thread below, where a member has just won his case, albeit a protracted battle , whereby the vehicle simply wasn't fit for purpose, or as described.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9397
MY17 HSE Luxury TD4 Ingenium 180ps - Aintree Green with Black Pack/ICTP/825w Meridian Audio
MY13 HSE Luxury FL2 2.2 SD4 190ps - Baltic Blue with NO Oil dilution issues whatsoever!
MY12 HSE FL2. 2.2 SD4 190ps - Sumatra Black - Gone


cherlaan
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by cherlaan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:03 pm

Hi Badgerface

Thanks for your quick reply. No the dealings were conducted through Jet Vehicle Finance and the Hire Agreement is through Lex Autolease


roydonaldson
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by roydonaldson » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:58 pm

Have they ever checked that the power train control module software has been fully updated ?
2017 Discovery Pro, HSE, Nav Pro.


cherlaan
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Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by cherlaan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:08 pm

On the fourth visit when they replaced the full system they carried out a N170 software update on the 16th July 2018 - not sure if that is it?


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