Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Faults and Fixes
Glyn
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Glyn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:17 am

Update on my Discovery Sport Balance Shaft failure. I have been contacted by LRJ, there position is that they are a manufacturer of vehicles, my contract is with the retailer. If I had wished to Reject then the proper line of communication is via the retailer. They implied however that they would put some pressure on the retailer to get an outcome that was satisfactory to me if I so wished. JLR also pointed out thaI had 3 issues that were separate. JLR had faith in a repair as a solution. If however a fault REACURRED following repair then I would be on very firm ground for rejection. My solicitor concurrs with that view.
I have been told to expect my vehice back after repair & QC towards the end of this week, so watch this space!
I am still of the view that this is not my car & I will be giving it back after the 3 year agreement comes to an end. If the vehicle performs well, & I have no issues then I may just change my mind - but I doubt it.
I have not mentioned an issue with ADD BLUE. Compared to my last Discovery Sport the current model is using about 6 times the amount. At the moment I just take the vehicle in to a dealership & get the product topped up FOC _ I have a maintenance plan. Both JLR technical & Guy SAlmon say they do not know why usage is high , but say it is nothing to worry about unless another fault occurs.

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Badgerface
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Badgerface » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:24 am

Both your solicitor and the manufacturer are correct in what they are saying.

My two Penn'orth, for what it's worth, is if you are happy with it, stick with it, but if the slightest thing goes wrong with the engine after repair, get shot. Nobody knows (yet) how the repair to the balance shafts will last long-term, nor does anybody know what other issues may occur as a result of the repair.
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Glyn
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Glyn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:25 pm

Well, I would not say that I am entirely happy with the situation I am in, but it seems to me that this is the best worse option. I agree entirley with your comments, that is why I am so relieved I aquired this vehicle via PCP rather than my usual cash purchase, I have options. However, should the fault re-occur then I will reject the vehicle.
To be fair to JLR they did provide a courtesy car for the duration of the repair.
I am still left however, with a less than inspiring answer to the ADD BLUE issue.


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Dashnine
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Dashnine » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:07 pm

Glyn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:25 pm
I am still left however, with a less than inspiring answer to the ADD BLUE issue.
Mav71 posted the Adblue consumption / expected mileage differences between model years of DS and the expected range, which explains the difference between your two DS: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3757&start=490#p101158.
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Ian_S » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:07 pm

And the increased AdBlue usage is almost certainly because newer cars now have to meet much stricter testing, including real world tests. So a MY16 car could still pass an NEDC test... and get away with less DEF usage. To pass RDE it looks like the wick has been turned up substantially
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Glyn
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Glyn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:45 pm

Thank you Dashine & Ian_S for both your posts. The extra ADD BLUE useage now makes sense. Pity the technical department at JLR could not be bothered to give me a proper explanation. The dealers were no better.


Rootcause
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Rootcause » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:57 pm

I am new to this forum, and am seeking clarification and effectiveness of the procedure used to repair, under Warranty, the Balance Shaft whine issue as described in Land Rover Service Action N128. My vehicle has been diagnosed by the Main Dealership with this fault and is awaiting repair. ( Disco Sport under 10,000 miles 17 months old)

Reviewing this topic on this forum and elsewhere indicates that earlier reported failures were addressed by JLR replacing the engine, whilst later failures were dealt with by replacing the Balance Shafts complete with their roller bearings only, the bearing structure being the defective unit.

From a video on this forum it seems that the Balance Shaft roller bearing outer shells or hardened surfaces remained in the Engine Block, and presumably were not retrofittable and required a complete replacement engine on earlier recorded failures to effect a repair , or even a second engine if that did not work !
(I doubt that even if the outer bearing surfaces are retrofittable it would be difficult if not impossible without an engine removal)

Land Rover Service Action N128 currently replaces the Balance Shaft assemblies , I presume by lowering the engine and stripping sufficiently to withdraw / replace the Balance Shafts from the right hand side. If this fails to fix the whine, then the engine will need to be replaced since the fault lies in the outer balancing shaft bearing surfaces remaining in the engine block.

These conflicting procedures suggest to me that the Ingenium engine may have a balance shaft outer bearing surface design that is indeed still not retrofittable, and that replacing the Balance Shaft assemblies only, is a calculated risk by JLR that the damage is confined to inner bearing surfaces on the shafts. Doing this is a cheaper repair for JLR if it works, but …..

I am inclined to suggest that balance shaft replacement could be described as an incomplete repair, since bearing failure can compromise the reliability of the entire bearing, including the outer surfaces, which may cause premature future failure.

What is needed is facts, so if anybody in the forum can help It would be appreciated. ( I have not yet approached JLR or my Dealership until I have hard facts....I am happy to be proven wrong !)

Maybe JLR have a part number upgrade for the shafts with retrofittable complete bearing assemblies that will fix all their models afflicted by this problem ? ….. customers need written reassurance to be loyal.

At this point in the Automotive revolution JLR need to be clean and proactive, to repair their teetering reputation .

I leave you to think over the implications...……. and hopefully you can help to resolve my questions….


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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Chippy » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:30 pm

A great forum name. Perhaps you should tell JLR what it means!
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Barnsh » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:47 pm

Rootcause wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:57 pm
I am new to this forum, and am seeking clarification and effectiveness of the procedure used to repair, under Warranty, the Balance Shaft whine issue as described in Land Rover Service Action N128. My vehicle has been diagnosed by the Main Dealership with this fault and is awaiting repair. ( Disco Sport under 10,000 miles 17 months old)

Reviewing this topic on this forum and elsewhere indicates that earlier reported failures were addressed by JLR replacing the engine, whilst later failures were dealt with by replacing the Balance Shafts complete with their roller bearings only, the bearing structure being the defective unit.

From a video on this forum it seems that the Balance Shaft roller bearing outer shells or hardened surfaces remained in the Engine Block, and presumably were not retrofittable and required a complete replacement engine on earlier recorded failures to effect a repair , or even a second engine if that did not work !
(I doubt that even if the outer bearing surfaces are retrofittable it would be difficult if not impossible without an engine removal)

Land Rover Service Action N128 currently replaces the Balance Shaft assemblies , I presume by lowering the engine and stripping sufficiently to withdraw / replace the Balance Shafts from the right hand side. If this fails to fix the whine, then the engine will need to be replaced since the fault lies in the outer balancing shaft bearing surfaces remaining in the engine block.

These conflicting procedures suggest to me that the Ingenium engine may have a balance shaft outer bearing surface design that is indeed still not retrofittable, and that replacing the Balance Shaft assemblies only, is a calculated risk by JLR that the damage is confined to inner bearing surfaces on the shafts. Doing this is a cheaper repair for JLR if it works, but …..

I am inclined to suggest that balance shaft replacement could be described as an incomplete repair, since bearing failure can compromise the reliability of the entire bearing, including the outer surfaces, which may cause premature future failure.

What is needed is facts, so if anybody in the forum can help It would be appreciated. ( I have not yet approached JLR or my Dealership until I have hard facts....I am happy to be proven wrong !)

Maybe JLR have a part number upgrade for the shafts with retrofittable complete bearing assemblies that will fix all their models afflicted by this problem ? ….. customers need written reassurance to be loyal.

At this point in the Automotive revolution JLR need to be clean and proactive, to repair their teetering reputation .

I leave you to think over the implications...……. and hopefully you can help to resolve my questions….
Totally agree which is why I mentioned this before, it’s an incomplete repair as any heat transference will have affected the outer shells left in the block.
Guess that’s why some go on to get new engines.
It stinks of cost cutting,nand a wish to push the repair outside of warranty.
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Ian_S
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Ian_S » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:13 pm

Chippy wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:30 pm
A great forum name. Perhaps you should tell JLR what it means!
I get this a lot unfortunately... So what was the root cause? It broke... How did you test it? I pressed a button and my finger didn't fall off, so it was a complete success. What were you testing? I have no idea, I just press buttons.

Thankfully they don't write nuclear weapons control systems...
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