Service interval

Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Faults and Fixes
User avatar
Zedman
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:48 pm
Location: Warwick
Has thanked: 67 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Service interval

Post by Zedman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:43 pm

Jaguar Land Rover recalls 44,000 cars over carbon dioxide levels

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... _Messenger
MY17 HSE Black Auto in Fuji White. Ordered 24th April 2017. Build date 9th June 2017. Del 1st August.

The garage: 2013 Nissan 370Z Nismo, 2019 Yamaha Tracer 900GT, 2001 Suzuki GSX750.


User avatar
Dashnine
Posts: 3115
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:18 pm
Location: Warwick, UK
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 130 times

Re: Service interval

Post by Dashnine » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:32 pm

PhilMabbots17 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:32 pm
Dashnine wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:12 pm
“Engineering work” doesn’t necessarily mean on end user vehicles, could be rig / vehicle work within LR simulating oil dilution over high mileages.

It’s a new engine as we know, and we believe oil dilution has probably been known in LR for almost as long as it’s been in the cars. If we assume testing has been taking place since then, after several years there’s a point when positive test results could allow changes to the dilution thresholds.

Speculation, of course.....

Jaguar Land Rover Plc
Ingenium will also come to market as one of the most tested and proven Jaguar Land Rover engines ever. Before the first Ingenium engine is sold, it will have already undergone the equivalent of more than eight years of the toughest, most punishing testing that Jaguar Land Rover engineers could devise. These tests include a huge range of integrity and durability testing, including more than 72,000 hours of dyno testing and 2 million miles of real-world testing to ensure these engines deliver – and continue to deliver.
No need to waste any more engineering money when they had 500,000 eager owners to do it for them!

I think its more likely that they just looked at the total number of DPF, EGR, crankshaft, turbo charger, balancer shaft and whole engine failures that two years of completely unchecked dilution had produced (18% to 20% I think GLLR said)…. let their bean counters do the sums and then just chose the cheapest option. More speculation of course....
Feel free to trawl the forum for examples, but haven’t a lot of balance shaft failures been on newish cars, before oil dilution could strike? A lot of DPF failures were due to the faulty batch and EGR, crankshaft and turbo failures have hardly been rife either. And I think we’ve heard of one whole engine failure with 11.25 litres of fluid in the sump, the extra 5 litres was hardly likely to have been due to oil dilution alone.

Here I go again speculating, but I wouldn’t say there have been a lot of mechanical failures (yet) due to oil dilution, but by all means carry on LR bashing.
MY19 P240 HSE, Indus Silver, Black Pack, Privacy Glass, 12 Way Memory Seats, Roof Rails, Spacesaver, Cold Climate Pack, 2 x USB in 1st & 2nd rows.
Gone: MY16 D180 HSE Black, Santorini Black


User avatar
PhilMabbots17
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:44 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Service interval

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:08 pm

More details here from an EU monitoring organisation, nothing about this on DVSA. Discovery Sport

Search for recalls on any car (any product for that matter,,,) here - ec.europa.eu
To find these particular recalls enter Brand = Land Rover & Category = Motor Vehicles

With the EU spotlight focused at last on Ingenium emissions it will be interesting to see what else JLR is forced to admit that it lied about.
2019 (19) Lexus RX 450h V6 Sport 4WD 8-)
2017 (66) Mercedes GLC 220d 4Matic Sport
2017 (17) Land Rover DS HSE 2.0L (Rejected)


User avatar
TeddyBear
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:47 pm
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Service interval

Post by TeddyBear » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:23 am

If we assume testing has been taking place since then, after several years there’s a point when positive test results could allow changes to the dilution thresholds.

Bone.GIF



Barnsh
Posts: 7018
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: South East
Has thanked: 205 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Re: Service interval

Post by Barnsh » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:33 am

TeddyBear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:23 am
If we assume testing has been taking place since then, after several years there’s a point when positive test results could allow changes to the dilution thresholds.
Bone.GIF
Can just imagine the meeting .....
Increase acceptable dilution to 10%
See how owners cars fair with that
Too many blown engines we can reduce to 8%
Calculated company oil saving is £xxxxxx.

👍

Simple solution would be:
Leave at 6%
Swallow pride , revert to annual servicing in all sales bumph.
Sell a five year plan, with annual service/ every 10,000 miles
Happy customers
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


User avatar
PhilMabbots17
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:44 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Service interval

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:32 am

I don't think that they ever had anywhere near enough budget to deal honestly and professionally with this. Once the fateful decision had been made in 2015 to go to market with a car that they knew needed three times as much servicing (due to three times as much post injection) as the brochures and other marketing materials stated, the die was cast. JLR's abyssmal performance from that point on betrays a sequence of short-term decisions, each one designed with three objectives in mind: 1) admit nothing and keep covered all prior nefarious activity, 2) modify the deception as necessary to fool as many people as possible for the longest period of time, and 3) always choose the lowest cost option consistent with objectives 1) and 2).

The evidence for this is all available on these pages and it is contained in JLR's own statements. To prove it, just ask your dealer this:
This begs the obvious question: was this vehicle faulty all along? If not, then why on earth have you modified the software - without my permission - with something that, according to JLR itself, will now expose it to the risk of serious damage less than a year before the end of the manufacturers warranty.

Kindly explain your actions
2019 (19) Lexus RX 450h V6 Sport 4WD 8-)
2017 (66) Mercedes GLC 220d 4Matic Sport
2017 (17) Land Rover DS HSE 2.0L (Rejected)


User avatar
Ian_S
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 6:53 am
Location: Southern England
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: Service interval

Post by Ian_S » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:23 am

To be honest I don't see any point asking your dealer about this, it's neither their fault, or within their power to answer it.

We will never get JLR to admit in writing something that will legally put them in an awkward position. We know most of it.

The only thing in my mind that doesn't stack up is how JLR engineering could come up with a solution that got as far as making production that didn't work. I'm sure they are not that bad.

The more likely reason it doesn't work is because thanks to VW/Bosch, the system they had designed and tested could not be used in its intended form, and suddenly they had to use the ECU operating without any cheats going on. This is kind of verified by the DS actually coming out as meeting emission targets in independent testing.

The real blame here lies with VW/Bosch. Personally I think JLR should sue them to recover the costs and if they wanted to make us happy, also the cost of properly fixing it. But that's unlikely to happen.

There's still time for JLR to drop service schedules to something more reasonable, and also publish testing results to back that up, in terms of oil dilution % vs. engine wear, which would be the open and honest thing to do. They could also be honest, and if legally can get away with it make it clear where the blame lies, and encourage people to consider that when making their next purchase. I don't see why they should play nice here, VW haven't. Might even boost their sales in the UK and non-German countries.
MY2016 HSE TD4 180


Robsters
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:07 am
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Service interval

Post by Robsters » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:14 am

Ian_S wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:23 am
To be honest I don't see any point asking your dealer about this, it's neither their fault, or within their power to answer it.

We will never get JLR to admit in writing something that will legally put them in an awkward position. We know most of it.

The only thing in my mind that doesn't stack up is how JLR engineering could come up with a solution that got as far as making production that didn't work. I'm sure they are not that bad.

The more likely reason it doesn't work is because thanks to VW/Bosch, the system they had designed and tested could not be used in its intended form, and suddenly they had to use the ECU operating without any cheats going on. This is kind of verified by the DS actually coming out as meeting emission targets in independent testing.

The real blame here lies with VW/Bosch. Personally I think JLR should sue them to recover the costs and if they wanted to make us happy, also the cost of properly fixing it. But that's unlikely to happen.

There's still time for JLR to drop service schedules to something more reasonable, and also publish testing results to back that up, in terms of oil dilution % vs. engine wear, which would be the open and honest thing to do. They could also be honest, and if legally can get away with it make it clear where the blame lies, and encourage people to consider that when making their next purchase. I don't see why they should play nice here, VW haven't. Might even boost their sales in the UK and non-German countries.
Well said and good point, VW got away with it far to easy, diesel is a dying breed as become impossible to meet ever more stringent targets. Petrol / hybrid all the way going forward for new cars, honesty is best policy JLR!
First time LR owner, I have joined more forums than I care to remember over the years from Volvo, VW, Mazda, Peugeot, Ford, Vauxhall, Fiat and probably others!!
Bye bye Volvo XC90 hello Land Rover Discovery Sport 180 d HSE 2016


moog23
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 7:07 pm

Re: Service interval

Post by moog23 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:03 am

Have been following thread for a while
Have an early model 2.0 diesel delivered sept 2015
Have changed oil regularly (at least every year)
This time decided to change oil at 6mths approx 6k miles myself .
Day after oil change service notification light came on 1700 miles to service, remote app also showing service due. Interestingly service due range increased over next few days to 1800 miles and now gone, service notification in app also gone.
Has the service due reset itself.
???


User avatar
Dashnine
Posts: 3115
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:18 pm
Location: Warwick, UK
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 130 times

Re: Service interval

Post by Dashnine » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:00 pm

Ian_S wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:23 am
To be honest I don't see any point asking your dealer about this, it's neither their fault, or within their power to answer it.

We will never get JLR to admit in writing something that will legally put them in an awkward position. We know most of it.

The only thing in my mind that doesn't stack up is how JLR engineering could come up with a solution that got as far as making production that didn't work. I'm sure they are not that bad.

The more likely reason it doesn't work is because thanks to VW/Bosch, the system they had designed and tested could not be used in its intended form, and suddenly they had to use the ECU operating without any cheats going on. This is kind of verified by the DS actually coming out as meeting emission targets in independent testing.

The real blame here lies with VW/Bosch. Personally I think JLR should sue them to recover the costs and if they wanted to make us happy, also the cost of properly fixing it. But that's unlikely to happen.

There's still time for JLR to drop service schedules to something more reasonable, and also publish testing results to back that up, in terms of oil dilution % vs. engine wear, which would be the open and honest thing to do. They could also be honest, and if legally can get away with it make it clear where the blame lies, and encourage people to consider that when making their next purchase. I don't see why they should play nice here, VW haven't. Might even boost their sales in the UK and non-German countries.
There may be the odd libellous phrase in the ‘speculation’ above - be careful, use questions rather than statements.... it’s not just you, it’s the forum owner and possibly mods as well who’d be held responsible.

I can’t imagine JLR would want their moment of glory in court over such a topic, but lawyers are lawyers!
MY19 P240 HSE, Indus Silver, Black Pack, Privacy Glass, 12 Way Memory Seats, Roof Rails, Spacesaver, Cold Climate Pack, 2 x USB in 1st & 2nd rows.
Gone: MY16 D180 HSE Black, Santorini Black


Post Reply

Return to “Engine and Drivetrain”