Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Faults and Technical chat for the Discovery Sport
Barnsh
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by Barnsh » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:06 pm

BFGDSMan wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:30 pm


Never had 13000 miles on my MY16? Was about 9500miles, and then for MY17 (my current car )and MY18 this was/is about 5000miles.
Can only assume your MY16 wasn’t filled full , as others on here also reported around 13,000 for MY16, then 9000 for MY17.
It was one of the first things Ivaueried with the dealer on collection when I noticed only 9000 on the MY17 .
My18 FPace, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


Barnsh
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by Barnsh » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:13 pm

S marty wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:54 pm
The def sensor cleverly monitors the content quality as well as the tank level.
So sadly if over filled it cannot tell whether you filled with adblu or tap water. So throws up a quality warning on dash.
https://www.continental-corporation.com ... nsor-99102.
Don’t see it written anywhere that the DS is fitted with a “Continental Urea Sensor”.
Any proof this Continental device is fitted to the DS ?
My18 FPace, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


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S marty
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by S marty » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:37 pm

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3757&p=66962&hilit ... nic#p66962


not brand specific but its that kind of sensor, clever bit of kit

I wonder if the def level would drop below the sensor before the no starts in x miles occured. hope I never get to find out


Barnsh
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by Barnsh » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:12 pm

NoDiscoSport wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:03 pm
Barnsh wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:11 am
Past master wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:50 pm
Just been talking to a local tradesman about his wife's SEAT. Given their problems with having everything reset because of the emissions scandal, then not working, not knowing anything about Adblue until he got an error message, having to have the turbo replaced, I feel much better about the DS now. ;)

Mind you, he's very happy with his Ford pickup.
Rather ironic that the DS starts off with the errors the VW majority has now inherited after being caught and “fixed” by modification.

Yes re the Fordy Pickup .....I see the USA Ford Raptor is coming to the UK too, but what a price tag :shock:
*****
It’s admittedly easy to see why you’d be drawn to one of these. The Raptor is the high-speed version of the legendary F-150 pickup truck, itself one of the most popular vehicles in the world, with a 450bhp 3.5-litre V6 producing mated to a ten-speed paddle-shift automatic gearbox. It’ll hit 60mph in around five seconds and will keep accelerating until well over 100mph, despite a kerb weight of over 2.5 tonnes.
*****
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/b ... and-drive/
Just to address the relevance of Barnsh's reference to irony. If you haven't seen it, this Guardian article explains what happens to a diesel engine car's performance when the cheat devices are suddenly switched off without making any other changes to the exhaust after treatment "architecture and hardware".

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... ndriveable

VW were forced to remove their cheat devices. Other manufacturers planning to follow VW down the DDD path would no doubt have voluntarily turned off their own cheat devices post 18th September 2015 and then probably made a big thing about how 'clean' their vehicles were and how they would never dream of using illegal software. But having done so, it would have been nigh-on impossible, in the time available, for them to avoid effects similar to those that VW owners have experienced, such as poor fuel economy, increased DPF regeneration activity, intermittently hesitant acceleration, higher AdBlue consumption, etc.

Regarding Land Rover, the DS and Evoque fitted with the 2.2 Duratorq diesel engine never suffered from any of these problems. But these pages (not to forget those on the evoque forum and elsewhere) are literally bursting with similar reports from Ingenium owners who acquired their vehicles after 18th September 2015. What was it that changed to make a car fitted with a fault-free engine and exhaust combination start behaving like cars that we know had had their diesel defeat devices hastily removed?

This change doesn't appear to have been the result of needing to comply with EU6 because, as the company continues to maintain, their cars have always met the emissions legislation requirements and are performing "normally". Instead they have implied that we, the drivers, suddenly stopped driving properly after the VW emissions scandal and that this is the reason our cars need so many oil changes. We all know that is nonsense. Maybe one day they will truthfully explain the real reason for the discrepancy between the performance of cars sold before 18th September 2015 and those sold afterwards. It would be better for everyone if this was done voluntarily as well.
And the smoking gun as such for the cheat device ( which isn’t actually a device ) sits inside the Bosch ECU17. as two distinct Software switches/ detectors that are by default turned ON!

This is the same ECU fitted to the DS, the same as Fiat and VW, it’s the EDC17 ECU.

2FE4AB9C-62D3-4F9C-AEC2-E63DFD78FF1C.jpeg

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/05/vo ... -research/

The research paper
https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~klevchen/diesel-sp17.pdf

It does make you think that’s for sure
My18 FPace, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


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BFGDSMan
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by BFGDSMan » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:32 pm

Barnsh wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:06 pm
BFGDSMan wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:30 pm


Never had 13000 miles on my MY16? Was about 9500miles, and then for MY17 (my current car )and MY18 this was/is about 5000miles.
Can only assume your MY16 wasn’t filled full , as others on here also reported around 13,000 for MY16, then 9000 for MY17.
It was one of the first things Ivaueried with the dealer on collection when I noticed only 9000 on the MY17 .
That is entirely plausible given my dealer, however, I brimmed it (not knowing about over filling at that time) and the counter only went to 9500miles which is what it was when I collected it.

I think it was a 16.5my so maybe they'd already started titivating??
Gone: SD4 HSE, 2 x TD4 HSE Lux.

His - Mercedes E220d AMG Estate & Hers - Mercedes E220d AMG Cabriolet


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by NoDiscoSport » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:44 pm

BFGDSMan wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:23 pm
To be fair thought the 2.2 unit was only ever rated as Euro 5 so was never challenged with AdBlue, although did have to work with EGR and DPF.
Granted, that's one way of looking at it.

But REGULATION (EC) No 715/2007 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 20 June 2007 gave every manufacturer over eight years to plan, design, implement and test their EU6 systems before compliance became mandatory on 1st September 2015. I mean, it wasn't like these regulations were dropped on them overnight without warning was it?

Yet something appears to have caused JLR to have a radical re-think between the publication of the SCR architecture shown in this document dated 21st July 2015 and the delivery of the first Ingenium diesels several months later. This is patently NOT the architecture and hardware that finally made it into production of the EU6b market Discovery Sport L-550 - so when and why was it changed? In any case, where are all the technical documents showing the SCRF design and describing how it works? Nowhere that we have been able to find them. The earliest references to SCRF in the Topix documents are dated 2016.

JM sales and technical documents suggest that the SCRF system was still being readied for commercial applications during 2014, seven years after the EU published Regulation No. 715 but just one year away from its required implementation. Maybe JLR were hedging their bets with two systems, plan A that relied on defeat devices and plan B which would be legal in all respects, but which might leave them positioned uncomfortably on the painful cutting edge of emissions technology. When the news of 18th September 2015 arrived on this side of the Atlantic suddenly there would have been no Plan A and the rest of it might be the painful history that we know so well.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


landrovernut
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by landrovernut » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:08 pm

Just as a matter of interest - with all this talk about how much DEF in tank etc - when LR assist came out to me last week and downloaded new software to correct the incorrect DEF quality issue, the guy showed me on his lap top exactly how many litres of DEF were in my tank (7.5) and exactly how many more I could put in until full (6.5).
Why can't we have that info available on our DEF menu??
Also, as this software problem is such an issue, why isn't it being upgraded when the car goes into dealership? It only gets done if you ask for it. Doesn't make sense to me.
The good thing I heard from the tech was that he is seeing far fewer of the latest DS's than the earlier ones. Let's hope that's right as I am thinking of chopping mine in before it's third birthday in February - but do I go for another one??
As a Grandad with family abroad, I do need an occasional 7 seater to save all the hassle of hiring cars at airports and paying extra for 3 kiddy seats etc. and I do need 4x4 capability living in rural Herefordshire. This somewhat limits my choice.
Took delivery 11th Feb 2016 MY 16.5 Disco Sport 2.0 TD4 180 HSE Auto, Firenze Red, Contrast Roof Santorini Black, Priviacy Glass.


Unclemort54
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by Unclemort54 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:40 pm

This message came up yesterday after around 25k miles of relatively trouble free motoring. Initially called in at the local dealership who said it would be the sensor becoming faulty and it would be a days job. Went away and booked LR Assist for this morning. This is what he did:

1) Explained in detail how the DEF system works and what the likely causes of the error message are. Didn’t include the sensor by the way, but I guess that’s not to say they never fail.

2) Updated the software.
Apparently this makes the system less sensitive by broadening the operating acceptance parameters.

3) Prime and pressure test.
This was OK

4) Check fluid quality.
This was OK. There’s a drain on the tank to allow taking of samples.

5) Inspect/clean the injector.
This was OK although they are prone to the Urea (Adblue) crystallising and blocking the nozzle.

Actual cause of error message was a spurious software signal. All done in around 40 minutes.
His recommendation for topping up the Adblue is to run until the 1500 mile warning and then put ten litres in. This ensures that most of the Adblue is used up and virtually none is in the tank long enough to degrade - which it does over time.

I wish I could find a dealership as good as these guys!
MY16 DS HSE 180 auto, Corris grey, HD Towing Pack (EDT and five seats), 20" style 511, privacy glass, silver roof rails, AFS xenon lights, 5yr SP.


landrovernut
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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by landrovernut » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:23 pm

I totally agree - these LR assist guys are brilliant.
Just don't try calling them out after normal working hours because you'll end up with an AA man who don't have the in depth knowledge of Land Rovers and Jaguars that the LR assist guys have.
Took delivery 11th Feb 2016 MY 16.5 Disco Sport 2.0 TD4 180 HSE Auto, Firenze Red, Contrast Roof Santorini Black, Priviacy Glass.


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Re: Incorrect diesel exhaust fluid quality detected

Post by Past master » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:53 pm

landrovernut wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:23 pm
I totally agree - these LR assist guys are brilliant.
Just don't try calling them out after normal working hours because you'll end up with an AA man who don't have the in depth knowledge of Land Rovers and Jaguars that the LR assist guys have.
When I've called LR assist I've been given the choice - AA technician in the next few hours or LR specialist as soon as possible (usually next day).
MY16 SETech 180 diesel Santorini Black


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