Found a DS - is this the one for me?

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Valisk
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Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by Valisk » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:02 pm

Hello! Potential new owner looking for some advice. I've just got back from a test drive...

I've been looking at the Discovey Sport and Evoque. After a test drive of an Evoque (a neighbor's car which I thought was really nice) I decided that I'd really prefer the extra practicality of the DS. I've spent a fair chunk of lockdown scouring forums and Autotrader to give me an idea of what to go for (many thanks to everyone who posts on here, it's a goldmine of info).

I'm shopping at the low end of the price range, so 2015-2016 cars are the only ones I can comfortably budget for, so I decided to go for a car with the 2.2 lump. My driving pattern would probably be OK for an Ingenium - hour each way motorway commutes with low congestion - but the tales of woe have put me off ever owning a 2.0. I've never really got on with auto boxes either, so I went for a manual.

I found one at a main dealer that seems to be a really good price for the spec. I looked its service history up and it's been serviced yearly with consistent milage throughout - currently around 45k. Everything on Topix was on my want list too. It's an SE Tech manual with pan roof.

The car had just come into stock, so hadn't been prepared or even cleaned, but it seems good. Bodywork is in great shape, as is the interior, complete with the heavy covering of makeup on the gearstick that seems to affect the wife's car! :)

The test drive went great, I loved it and more importantly, so did the wife. Sorry about the backstory - here's the crux of my concern:

The car is fitted with a tow hitch that I didn't realise was there - there were no pics available when I reserved the car. It wasn't listed on the Topix spec list [LESS TOWING EQUIPMENT], but appears to be an LR part, the one with the fairing that replaces the lower rear plate. The sales guy assures me that 'it was used infrequently to tow a 1.6 tonne caravan'. I noticed that when starting the car up, a TPMS notification pops up stating that it's configured for heavy load. The last MOT advisories were for uneven rear tyre wear and front disks & pad wear.

How concerned should I be about this? I'm concious of the - umm, interesting, reliability foibles around JLR kit. Everything else about the car checks out, but I'm worried about the extra stresses on the engine and drivetrain. Does frequent towing cause uneven rear tyre wear? Could that point to more towing than the dealer is letting on?

Thanks for reading through all that! Stay safe.
MY15 SE Tech 2.2 Manual. Indus Silver, black contrast roof with pano. 7 seat/spacesaver/towbar.

41jules1967
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by 41jules1967 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:20 am

Uneven tyre wear could be caused by anything and covers a range of issues. What do they mean by that? Is it more heavily worn on one edge, which points to suspension wear, or do they mean it's worn more heavily in the centre than the edges, which points to running over inflated (and tallies with the "load" setting). If they increased rear tyre pressures for the towing and left it there when the car wasn't loaded/towing then I'd expect the tyres to be excessively worn in the centres and new like on the edges.

The Disco is a very capable tow car so it's not going to be over stressed towing a caravan. Odds are it was loaded up at the same time, so the owner probably just set it to high load and left it there. Towing may put a higher load on the rear suspension so I'd want to know that all the joints etc are still in good condition (ref the tyre wear) but if it's recently passed the MOT then that's as much as you can ask really. Yes there will be additional load on the engine but the 2.2d is torquey enough to handle that so I'd not be overly concerned. The only thing I can think of that may have suffered is the clutch but there's really no way to know its condition without removing it.
2019 Discovery Sport 180 HSE Lux 7 seat & spare wheel - (DIY Fitted Towbar, Mudflaps, Wireless charging pad, Side Steps )
2012 Jaguar XF-S Premium Luxury
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SarahStreet
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by SarahStreet » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:50 am

How does the salesman know, hand on heart, what it was used to tow for, and for how long? Dealer BS to get a sale springs to mind.....

As 41jules1967 comments above, the DS is highly capable as a tow car, Hell, it pulled a 100 tonne train with ease a few years back (clip below), but my suggestion if this particular vehicle ticks all the boxes is to get the dealer to put the vehicle through a full Hunter alignment check and adjustment where necessary, and insist that you see both the before and after reports. If it hasn't been done already, get the discs and pads done as a deal-breaker, and forge ahead and buy it. The 2.2 PSA units are pretty much bomb-proof, with intercooler hoses being the only major Achilles heel. One other thing to factor in regarding this powerplant is that JLR reduced the cambelt changes from 10 years to 7 years, so factor that in as well that in a couple of years time it will need doing.


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Valisk
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by Valisk » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:35 pm

Thank you both for the advice - very much appreciated. I'll ask about the wheel alignment. I agree about the sales guy's comments, anything like that can be dismissed instantly anyway. Without any proof to back it up, it's just hearsay, worthless.

Whenever I asked a specific question, it was the same response each time; Will the disks & pads be replaced? '165 Multi-Point Inspection', will the tyres be replaced? '165 Multi-Point Inspection', I can hear a squeak from the back seat area, '165 Multi-Point Inspection', etc, etc. I suppose that's all he's able to say really.

I've asked to see the report on the issues that they've dealt with during the inspection which will be the start point for any negotiations. Anything I'm not satisfied with, I'll walk away. I've long since learned not to get fixated on any particular car, there's always another one.
41jules1967 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:20 am
Uneven tyre wear could be caused by anything and covers a range of issues. What do they mean by that? Is it more heavily worn on one edge, which points to suspension wear, or do they mean it's worn more heavily in the centre than the edges, which points to running over inflated (and tallies with the "load" setting). If they increased rear tyre pressures for the towing and left it there when the car wasn't loaded/towing then I'd expect the tyres to be excessively worn in the centres and new like on the edges.
I re-checked the advisory and I would say (as a complete layman) it's the suspension wear variety based on: "both rear tyres wearing uneven on inner edge"
Last edited by Valisk on Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MY15 SE Tech 2.2 Manual. Indus Silver, black contrast roof with pano. 7 seat/spacesaver/towbar.

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Valisk
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by Valisk » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:39 pm

Also - thanks for the info re. cambelt interval. When searching, I was coming up with both 7 and 10 years and was unsure which was correct.
MY15 SE Tech 2.2 Manual. Indus Silver, black contrast roof with pano. 7 seat/spacesaver/towbar.

41jules1967
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by 41jules1967 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:14 am

Valisk wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:35 pm
I re-checked the advisory and I would say (as a complete layman) it's the suspension wear variety based on: "both rear tyres wearing uneven on inner edge"
Not sure whether the rear camber is adjustable on the DS that's the most common cause of such wear.

The other thought is ... maybe at one point have the tracking was out of alignment as this is another potential cause for tyre feathering. Once fixed, you have a choice, either replace both tyres or rotate them to the rear where edge wear is less of an issue. If the tyre is otherwise ok with plenty of life, I've done this myself. Increase the pressures a couple of psi and there's no safety detriment and it'll not get any worse.

In any case, a Hunter alignment will show what's out of spec, which then leaves the dealer to get everything in the green.
Valisk wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:35 pm
Also - thanks for the info re. cambelt interval. When searching, I was coming up with both 7 and 10 years and was unsure which was correct.
Seems to be a JLR thing as I had the same issue on my XF. Everyone says it's 10 years for a cambelt but I downloaded the service sheet and it clearly stated 7.
2019 Discovery Sport 180 HSE Lux 7 seat & spare wheel - (DIY Fitted Towbar, Mudflaps, Wireless charging pad, Side Steps )
2012 Jaguar XF-S Premium Luxury
Previous - Mercedes (Various C & E Classes), 2 x Freelander2's

SarahStreet
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by SarahStreet » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:52 am

To try and explain the confusion on the timescales of the cambelt.

The PSA unit is available in two power outputs, TD4 (150) and SD4 (190). These units were predominantly fitted to Freelander and Evoque Mk 1.

Initially, the cambelt service interval was 10 years/160000 miles. However, around 2014 it was noticed that the higher powered engine (SD4) was experiencing cambeltt-related issues, so the service interval was reduced to 7 years. This applies to the SD4 (190) only, which was also fitted at launch to L550.

It should be noted that it wasn't the belts that were giving way, it was the water pump/tensioners that were failing prematurely, causing catastrophic damage. It is imperative that the ancillary components are changed at the same time as the belt, as these have been identified as the root cause of the problem, and subsequently, the earlier service interval.

Sadly, the MS&S teams at JLR made a total Horlicks of communicating this information to owners, but dealers were advised in an SSM, which they will happily confirm. And just to confuse you even further, the 3+ fixed price for a cambelt change at a dealer is BELT ONLY, so don't be fooled. Get a price for everything, as the actual belt in itself is the last thing that is likely to fail.

Hope that helps.

41jules1967
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by 41jules1967 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:57 am

SarahStreet wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:52 am

The 3+ fixed price for a cambelt change at a dealer is BELT ONLY, so don't be fooled. Get a price for everything, as the actual belt in itself is the last thing that is likely to fail.

Hope that helps.
Great advice!
If I get a cambelt change, I automatically expect it to include a new tensioner and if driven by the belt, a new water pump. In my experience, those are the things that normally take out the cam belt. I've personally never heard of a single instance of a belt failing directly, but know of numerous failures (including one of my own) caused by water pumps or tensioners locking up.
If I had had the belt replaced by a dealer, only to have the tensioner or pump subsequently fail and take the new one out, they'd be discussing the definition of "negligence" with my solicitor.
2019 Discovery Sport 180 HSE Lux 7 seat & spare wheel - (DIY Fitted Towbar, Mudflaps, Wireless charging pad, Side Steps )
2012 Jaguar XF-S Premium Luxury
Previous - Mercedes (Various C & E Classes), 2 x Freelander2's

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RPR
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by RPR » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:49 am

41jules1967 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:57 am
SarahStreet wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:52 am

The 3+ fixed price for a cambelt change at a dealer is BELT ONLY, so don't be fooled. Get a price for everything, as the actual belt in itself is the last thing that is likely to fail.

Hope that helps.
Great advice!
If I get a cambelt change, I automatically expect it to include a new tensioner and if driven by the belt, a new water pump. In my experience, those are the things that normally take out the cam belt. I've personally never heard of a single instance of a belt failing directly, but know of numerous failures (including one of my own) caused by water pumps or tensioners locking up.
If I had had the belt replaced by a dealer, only to have the tensioner or pump subsequently fail and take the new one out, they'd be discussing the definition of "negligence" with my solicitor.
I'd be asking the question regarding that before the work was carried out and having it in writing otherwise it's not open & shut
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Valisk
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Re: Found a DS - is this the one for me?

Post by Valisk » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:09 pm

SarahStreet wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:52 am
Hope that helps.
Very much, thanks again! Duly noted. It's frustrating that we have to be the ones on our toes about this.
MY15 SE Tech 2.2 Manual. Indus Silver, black contrast roof with pano. 7 seat/spacesaver/towbar.

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