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Service interval

1M views 3K replies 215 participants last post by  Past master 
#1 ·
My DS, first registered in November 2015 has covered 8910 miles.
A few days ago, on the InControl App, a Service Due Alert message appeared advising that my car is due for a service.
This coincided with an occasional message (on first start up of the day) saying that the oil level is low. This message did not stay, but disappeared once the tyre setting message had been displayed. I checked the oil level on the dipstick and it is showing full.
I spoke to my dealer who says that maybe due to the type of driving I have been doing (!!) the car needs an oil and filter change.
Anybody else had a similar experience?
 

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#2,752 ·
Plumpton said:
My 18 plate Evoque loaner the other week had covered around 7k and oil service was also showing zero. I mentioned it when I dropped it off and was told it's ok, they will sort it. The previous loan car was just the same, maybe they are happy to leave their cars until they get to 21k?
Yep, that was my experience a couple of weeks ago too!
 
#2,753 ·
As a matter of interest to this thread, the driver at work has just come to notify me that the oil warning light has just come on on the company Ford Transit.
It was new in March and has just done 11,000 miles and the next service is due at 18,000 miles. Is it the same issues as the DS is experiencing?
The van does a mixture of short and long runs and has used a lot of Adblue in the 11,000 miles.
Dealer was pretty helpful and said he didn't think the oil needs changing but they would check out why the light is coming on!
 
#2,754 ·
Funnily enough -9, the JLR tech that came out to me yesterday from Gaydon arrived in an 18 plate Transit as well. It too had an oil change at 11000 miles recently, and he also advised that it drinks approx 1litre of Adblue every 300 miles. Which given the mileage that he does means a weekly/fortnightly refill.

I guess that us MY17 owners feel quite spoiled by comparison in terms of DEF range!
 
#2,755 ·
Badgerface said:
Funnily enough -9, the JLR tech that came out to me yesterday from Gaydon arrived in an 18 plate Transit as well. It too had an oil change at 11000 miles recently, and he also advised that it drinks approx 1litre of Adblue every 300 miles. Which given the mileage that he does means a weekly/fortnightly refill.

I guess that us MY17 owners feel quite spoiled by comparison in terms of DEF range!
Yes I must admit that the Transit is using more Adblue than my DS which is quite a surprise! I keep the Adblue at work so I can see the usage!
 
#2,756 ·
Interesting article on FT today:

EU probes BMW, Daimler and VW over possible cartel behaviour
Brussels has launched a formal investigation into whether BMW, Daimler and the VW Group colluded to limit the development of clean emission technology for vehicles.
Margrethe Vestager, EU competition commissioner said: "If proven, this collusion may have denied consumers the opportunity to buy less polluting cars, despite the technology being available to the manufacturers."
Read more here
 
#2,757 ·
Just back from booking my DS in for its second service during my ownership. I had to go to the dealers because it needed the DEF topped within 200 miles and I wasn't prepared to risk waiting until the service for the DEF top-up. Why can't the DEF range and service interval be roughly the same?!? :evil:

The service desk person seemed very surprised that my car needed servicing so soon, stating that "it probably just needs the service light resetting and shouldn't be due for a service until September 2019". :shock:

I made it obvious that I was familiar with the contents of JLRP00100 but still seemed adamant that I "wouldn't get a service under warranty". :roll:

First service: 16972 miles (21,000 mile service undertaken and oil and filter replaced - they also deducted this from my service plan (which is technically correct in accordance with JLRP00100 as it equates to approximately 80% of its first service interval))

Current mileage: 28,765 miles

Service Due: 1,010 miles (which we all know will suddenly plummet to 0 within a very short distance)

I've covered roughly 12,000 miles (<75%) since the last service, but some 13,000 miles short of the second service interval (supposedly 42,000 miles).

I'll be taking my oil sample and sending it off to Millers to measure the actual - not estimated - oil dilution percentage.

Let's see what happens on Monday... :lol:

Steve
 
#2,758 ·
In theory, that should be an FOC oil and filter change under warranty. Not a full service.

Are they proposing to charge you for this?
 
#2,759 ·
At this point it sounds like they are proposing to charge it to my service plan, yes.

Which means that my 5 year service plan will been depleted of service credits before the car is 2 years old, having covered less than 30,000 miles.
 
#2,760 ·
I would argue the point that the vehicle is not due a second service yet, and that the oiled and filter need replacing again under JLRP00100 as the vehicle has covered <16000 miles since the last service. Therefore the bulletin still applies.
 
#2,761 ·
That's what I intend to do, BF.

And, if they fail to abide by JLRP00100, I will leave the car there, blame Brexit, get the bus home, and involve LRCRC (again) until they sort it out for me.

Everything is such a battle with Land Rover. :(
 
G
#2,762 ·
Woolmeister said:
Everything is such a battle with Land Rover. :(
Which is exactly why I dumped the DS and LR for another manufacturer.

Our DS was coming up for its 2nd service @ around 17000 miles and I just couldn't be bothered with the same conversation with Marshall's that I had on the first oil change at 9000miles. They did a full service, despite me requesting an oil change as per the contents of JLPR00100.
When I picked it up they said it needed a full service (9000miles and <12months old) and the service would be deducted from the service plan. I sat there, demanded to see the service manager and when he finally appeared (following loads of bullish!it about not being able to find him) I just said to him "I have a copy of JLPR00100, shall I call LR now or will you" He maintained he needed to change the service to the service plan since a full service had been carried out. "Not my problem that you can't follow LR instructions" I told him, at which point he disappeared for a few minutes and when he came back he claimed to have contacted LR who he said authorised him to book the service to warranty. (which is also incorrect so more bull from him)

2nd oil change in 15 months coming up and I had a good offer from Lexus to change to Lexus. In the end it was a no brainier but of course, according to Speth, LR are losing business because of Brexit, not because that 12+ months since this situation was out in the open across their vehicle range LRs cowboy dealers still try on the same sh!t and LR can't get an handle on their real problems or their dealers.
 
#2,763 ·
Woolmeister said:
The service desk person seemed very surprised that my car needed servicing so soon, stating that "it probably just needs the service light resetting and shouldn't be due for a service until September 2019". :shock:
I am conscious of the thousands of owners out there who don't have a clue about any of this, don't know that the car they are driving has a deep-seated design fault that wears out components prematurely or that they will be paying for the ineptitude and deceit of others for many years to come. Well done, Woolmeister for sticking to your guns, I take some small comfort after reading stories from people who refuse to accept the bullshit.

So far 2,600 posts and 3,500 downloads of JLRP00100 (that's just from this site). What are the chances that one day there'll be a group legal action, I wonder? Something like this ... http://www.vwemissionsaction.com/

View attachment 7162
 

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#2,764 ·
Of greater concern regarding the ethics and morals of dealers, how many are "just" resetting the service light and claiming the rebate under JLRP00100, without any physical action being taken at all?

Not that I'm suggesting that happens anywhere whatsoever....... :cry:
 
#2,765 ·
It's certainly a worry, BF.

I will be going armed with my copy of JLRP00100 and a printout of my online service history. I'll spare them the 262 pages of this thread in the interests of the environment.

I've already highlighted the critical path through the flowchart on page 7 of JLRP00100, just in case the service desk operative has trouble understanding it.

Let's see what happens on Monday. I didn't get my oil sample off to Millers today so I probably won't have the results back in time for Monday now. Hopefully they won't be required anyway and the dealer will do as they've been instructed in JLRP00100.

They will probably keep the car for two days anyway. They also need to investigate why my OSR door card fell off - with the door closed - jamming the door closed in the process.

Steve
 
#2,766 ·
If you want to compare the car's diesel estimate to MIllers' report there's a couple of places in SDD where they can access the dilution counter for you. The Service Message Reset Menu should look a bit like the picture below where it's shown to 1/10th of a per cent. The other print-out rounds up or truncates the fraction so it could be up to 1.8% off the actual dilution estimate, i.e. not really much use for checking the accuracy of the algorithm.

 
#2,768 ·
To avoid further thread creep on OIL SAMPLE and Incorrect dpf fluid threads I have brought this question back where it belongs.

On Topix there was an exhaust document for the DS - Exhaust System - INGENIUM I4 2.0L Diesel - Selective Catalyst Reduction Description and Operation - dated 21st July 2015. On page 6 it contains a schematic showing an exhaust architecture for the Discovery Sport with the hardware arranged in this sequence: "10) Catalytic Converter, 9) Diesel Particulate Filter, 8) Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) injector and finally 6) Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) catalytic converter".

On page 1 of the document is states: "The Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) system is an exhaust gas after treatment solution used to reduce the nitrogen oxides within the exhaust gas.For this purpose, a specified amount of Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) is injected into the exhaust system, downstream of the DPF."

Has this architecture (which is similar to that on the Discovery 5 3.0L diesel) ever been seen outside the UK? If so, where is the physical location of the DPF? This arrangement appears to resolve a lot of the issues with the HCPM because it implies a close-coupled DPF - so why wasn't it used? The use of DEF seems to imply EU6 conformance, but maybe this is an incorrect assumption.

The publication date of this document is striking because it's only 6 weeks before the Ingenium diesel was due to start shipping in the UK. The JLR engineer who attended to my car said they couldn't fit the DPF into the engine compartment where it needed to go, which was the root cause of the service interval issues on this car. Could this document show a never-to-be-seen exhaust architecture that verifies his comment?
 
#2,769 ·
"The use of DEF seems to imply EU6 conformance, but maybe this is an incorrect assumption."

Adblu has been around much longer than euro6

Maybe for Russian export market? they still operate under Euro V type standard, or any other country not up to Euro 6 type standard. its a big planet lots of variations.
 
#2,770 ·
S marty said:
"The use of DEF seems to imply EU6 conformance, but maybe this is an incorrect assumption."

Adblu has been around much longer than euro6

Maybe for Russian export market? they still operate under Euro V type standard, or any other country not up to Euro 6 type standard. its a big planet lots of variations.
The rules for permissible NOx discharge changed over time , the table for EU requirements is here .
You can see between EU5 and EU 6 this changed by reduction requirements.

https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/fuels-environment/euro-emissions-standards

All this is well known to most
The Euro 6 standard imposes a further, significant reduction in NOx emissions from diesel engines (a 67% reduction compared to Euro 5) and establishes similar standards for petrol and diesel.

Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) - replacing some of the intake air (containing 80% nitrogen) with recycled exhaust gas - reduces the amount of nitrogen available to be oxidised to NOx during combustion but further exhaust after treatment may be required in addition to the Diesel Particulate Filters required to meet Euro 5.

Euro 6 diesel cars may also be fitted with:

A NOx adsorber (Lean NOx Trap) which stores NOx and reduces it to Nitrogen over a catalyst
Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) which uses an additive (Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) or AdBlue) containing urea injected into the exhaust to convert NOx into Nitrogen and water.
The use of Cerium, a fluid injected into the fuel tank each time the vehicle is refuelled which assists the DPF regeneration by lowering the temperature needed for regeneration.
 
#2,772 ·
S marty said:
Which vehicles use AdBlue and SCR?

Heavy goods vehicles - trucks, coaches and buses - have been using SCR technology and AdBlue from as long ago as 2004, and some passenger car manufacturers have been using it for nearly as long. Mercedes and Volkswagen, for example.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-tech/96793/what-is-adblue
Not sure of relevance of your post ...yes it's been used for ages , that's common knowledge, but the first use by JLR is much later. I think NDS point above is based on No def on the pre ingenium engined DS.
 
#2,773 ·
Barnsh said:
Not sure of relevance of your post ...yes it's been used for ages , that's common knowledge, but the first use by JLR is much later. I think NDS point above is based on No def on the pre ingenium engined DS.
Yes, that's it in a nutshell.

I don't believe that there was any need for LNT or SCR prior to 1st September 2015 because EGR alone can control NOx to 0.18 gm / km and below. But it would be useful to have it confirmed: Was there any DEF on the 2015MY Discovery Sport with the Ford Duratorq 2.2 ?
 
#2,774 ·
I had the Peugeot / Ford / JLR / Many others 2.2 in my 2010 Mitsubishi Outlander and it had a bag of 'something', urea if some type I believe in a box under the chassis.

It leaked all over my drive and was replaced under warranty by the dealer. Apparently good for 60K miles, when it didn't leak...

So yes, I would assume the DS had it too with the 2.2 engine.
 
#2,775 ·
Dashnine said:
I had the Peugeot / Ford / JLR / Many others 2.2 in my 2010 Mitsubishi Outlander and it had a bag of 'something', urea if some type I believe in a box under the chassis.

It leaked all over my drive and was replaced under warranty by the dealer. Apparently good for 60K miles, when it didn't leak...

So yes, I would assume the DS had it too with the 2.2 engine.
Or maybe not, apparently it's Eolys fluid, injected into the fuel to reduce particulates.
 
#2,776 ·
Thanks Dash9. It wasn't necessary to have SCR/Ad-Blue to meet EU5, the main technology being DOC-DPF with some LNTs. EU6b requirements are shown in the table below.
Font Material property Screenshot Parallel Number
Source: International Council on Clean Transportation, June 2016.

The DOC-DPF-DEF-SCR design published 21st July 2015 (6 weeks before EU6b became mandatory for existing models) would have enabled JLR to begin selling the Discovery Sport 2.0L Ingenium diesel throughout Europe after 1 September 2015. But they didn't use this exhaust architecture and hardware solution.

Were they developing the DOC-DEF-SCRF architecture at the same time? If they were then they would have to have been developing two competing systems in parallel - for DOC-DEF-SCRF and DOC-DPF-DEF-SCR do the same job.

Is that likely?
 

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