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Incoming Mobile Phone Calls Not Ringing

26K views 62 replies 9 participants last post by  aingarth 
#1 ·
I took delivery of a Discovery Sport Landmark edition at the end of November. My I-Phone (I-Phone 6) paired and worked fine until I registered for In Control. Since then, incoming calls ring the phone and show on the screen but the car ringing tone does not activate. In fact, what is happening is that the car audio system is playing the phone ring tone but very quietly. The technician at the main dealer has looked at it and has never seen the problem before. He paired his Android phone and that rang correctly. I have now paired my wife's phone (I-Phone 7) and that is just the same.
The main dealer is not getting back to me and LR Customer Service are unable to help beyond asking me to check the phone compatibility list.

Has anyone experienced this problem or does anyone have a solution?
 
G
#27 ·
As it works for others, including myself, it is not a systemic issue with ICT 3.4 and iOS (of any version).

It is also unrelated to using the InControl App.

It all points to your specific setup. Either your car or your phone. More likely your phone. Performing a full reset of your phone will prove one way or another. Backup your phone. Fully reset it. Test it with your car. Then restore it.

The 15 mins is important. Locking the car for 15 mins means the system is totally shutdown.
 
#28 ·
So I have tested it using an iPhone 5C which is running IOS10.3.3. It is behaving almost the same as the more up to date phones and software:-
1 The ringtone set up on the phone is relayed though the car speakers - but louder
2 The phone also rings

So it has to be something to do with the software or settings on the car - but it is not just this vehicle???
 
#29 ·
In reply to your suggestion that it is my phone. We have now tried iPhones 5C, 6, 6plus, 7, 7plus and 8 and the dealer has tried a whole range of i-Phones belonging to the staff at the main dealer while the car was wired up on test - all with the same issue. So what setting would affect all these phones, all of which have or are currently working properly with Bluetooth hands free on other cars?
 
#31 ·
Have you also tried to change the volume on the iphone when the call is rining and connected via Bluetooth?

I know that when i'm playing audio via the phone through bluetooth I've had to increase the volume on the phone to a higher level to hear it through the car speakers.

Just a thought...
 
#32 ·
Thank-you for all your ideas and help.
Just tosay all the things suggested have been tried and the main dealer has had the car on test for 5 full days with the tech guys at LR HQ involved and they cannot identify the cause of the problem. Some key points:-
1 The problem is that for an incoming call, the mobile phone still rings and the car plays the same tune through the speakers but - with the incoming ring set at maximum volume, it is very quiet. So you have to position the phone in a prominent place, so not in your pocket or in the
centralcubby store.
2 Yes, the phone IS connected to Bluetooth; it IS paired. The incoming call is displayed on the screen and , when answered, the hands free is perfect with loads of volume. Contacts are synchronised, messages are displayed and outgoing calls are absolutely fine.
3 Our iPhone 6 and 7 worked fine with the previous Freelander 2 and on delivery, both worked fine with the Disco Sport on 29th November 2018. During December, something changed!
4 The car has now been tested with a range of iPhones:- 5c, 6, 6plus, 7, 7plus and 8. All at the latest software level, currently 12.2 although the 5C is way behind as it no longer is suitable for updates. The dealer has tried a range of iPhones used by staff at the showroom.

to be continued.
 
#33 ·
Continued to avoid forum time out.
5 Android and all non iPhones seem to work OK and when paired to the car, the car generates its own ring tone.
6 The loan courtesy Disco Sport had an identical issue
7 A friend with a brand new Velar has the same issue but as the Velar plays the ring tone so much louder, she sees it as a bonus as it plays the different tones allocated to different people.
8 So we have established that it isn't a specific phone with the problem. And it isn't phone settings which have been checked over and over including 5 days at the dealer on test.
9 And we have also established that it isn't just a specific car.
10 It also seems that there are one or two on here with the issue but most do not have it.
11 LR HQ have asked the dealer to book the car in again for a full 5 days and it will be going in on June 3 and I will again have a Disco Sport Landmark courtesy car. This time, they will have the LR development team involved at the factory. To be honest, I have had enough and was prepared to live with it!

I will let you know what happens.
 
#34 ·
I may have stumbled across something that could be relevant here.

Recently I've noticed that if I don't plug my iPhone into the USB socket, bluetooth audio hasn't always been available, and no amount of stopping/starting the car sometimes resolves this. For some reason yesterday I checked my phone when this happened and noticed I'd left the Sonos app running. When I closed the Sonos app, and stopped and started bluetooth on the car, it came back straight away.

I know Apple change the rules on iOS on how apps can control audio based on how they want airplay to work, so am wondering if the problem in general here is certain open apps, or perhaps background refresh ones if you have those enabled, prevent the ICT unit from being able to establish the bluetooth audio connection if they are open and were the last app controlling audio.

Normally, I plug my iphone in, and use it through the iPod source, as on standard ICT you don't get any album artwork or song name on the central cluster, whereas you do under iPod. I wonder if the loss of ringtone comes when you are plugged in, and the bluetooth audio connection can't be established as above when bluetooth audio goes missing as a source.
 
#35 ·
The problem is occurring with the phone not connected with a cable. All the Bluetooth and hands free is fine, it's just the ringing sound. Not sure why you want to connect by cable, other than to charge, as everything such as playing music works fine using Bluetooth? As stated before, the problem is present across a range of iPhones and a number of different LR cars. That is why it is such a mystery and the LR specialists at the factory are also mystified.
 
#36 ·
Ok, let me put it a different way :)

Make sure *all* apps are closed when you try and connect to the car. Also, just for testing make sure the last music app you used on the iphone was the music app. Then in the car bluetooth settings turn bluetooth off, wait 15 seconds and then turn it back on. Then in the paired devices list make sure that both ticks are blue for phone and audio.

I suspect if for some reason the ICT cannot connect the audio profile, the ringer doesn't function.

As I said, I use the cable because you get album cover art and song names in the instrument cluster which I do not see via bluetooth. Also it charges the phone :)
 
#37 ·
My November 2018 Landmark edition has just spent a further 5 days on test at the dealer. Prior to this, the following iPhones have been tested: 4, 5, 5C, 6, 7, 8 and X. All give the same results. Pairing is successful, hands free works correctly, contacts synchronise correctly, messages appear on the screen and can be heard as voice messages through the system when driving. Just one problem, when there is an incoming call, it appears on the screen and in front of the driver but the audible alert is mainly from the phone with the same tune played through the car speakers but very quietly. The issue has also been the same on 2 Landmark courtesy cars I have been provided with. It is OK when stationary but travelling at 70 mph you have to notice it on the screen or, with the radio on, notice that the radio volume has quietened.

The results of the tests are:-
LR have confirmed that most cars, Discovery and Range Rover, manufactured since October do play the ringing tune or tone on the phone though the car Wi - Fi and also the phone itself also plays the tune as well. So this means the only issue is the volume. On my car, it appears that some iPhones come through the loudspeakers as loud and some as quiet.

The official diagnosis is:-
*That there are problems with IOS 12 onwards which affect some iPhone and not others.
*Depending on the Bluetooth band frequency for each phone - some phones will behave better than others so two apparently identical iPhone 8 models can behave differently
*An EPQR can be sent for this fault but ultimately the fault lies with IOS software and not the vehicle
*The customer will need to contact Apple for support
*No further technical assistance can be provided and the case is closed.

So apparently iPhones choose the Bluetooth frequency to link, it is not always the same and the user has no control over that but how so many different phones can choose the "wrong" frequency I don't know. You would have thought it would affect the volume when talking hands free but it doesn't, or the volume playing music via Bluetooth but it doesn't. However, at the dealers, we have tried two separate iPhone 8s all with identical settings and one is fine and the other very quiet so their answer seems to be correct.

You can imagine the response from Apple, particularly as some of the models I have tested are nowhere near IOS 12! So I am left having to live with the problem. If anyone has any left brain solution, please let me know.
 
#38 ·
aingarth said:
"The vehicle infotainment is validated up to IOS 11.3. Any Apple software updates after that version can affect the Bluetooth function. Motor manufacturers are not given prior access to the Apple Software so have no way of knowing the effect it will have on a customer's vehicle."

...

I am absolutely astonished that JLR software design is not involved in the Beta testing of Apple software before it is released so they can understand any issues with In Control software and liaise with Apple - individuals like you and I can join the testing programme so I would have thought a manufacturer of premium cars should be involved. I have written to Dr. Ralph Speth to raise the issue to the highest level.
That is corporate BS of the worst kind, as that is exactly why Apple make developer builds available usually well in advance of public release. This is really meaning we don't have an automated regression test suite we can run through to re-validate iOS with InControl, and aren't willing to put the resources in. We'd rather waste dealers and customers time trying to diagnose issues and hope they give up.

The flip side to this is also that if they do evaluate iOS and do find problems, on many systems they have no way to push updates out, or let customers/dealers easily update their units. However, again, that is also code for we don't want to allow anyone to update InControl themselves, which many other manufacturers do allow. BMW for example allow you to download updates and install them.

Perhaps the newer 10" systems with over the air updates will improve things but that is no help to existing customers.

It's also not reasonable to expect customers not to update their phones until JLR 'validate' them, especially when they are years behind, not just weeks. If they had a decent validation programme that was updated monthly, then you may well want to do that, however, clearly they don't have one, so to make that claim is just poor service. It may well be an iOS change that has caused this, my iPhone XS is doing it too, but it's not like iOS updates are a once a year or rare thing.

Finally, it shouldn't really matter how the phone and car pair to the end user.

Perhaps you should report JLR to the Bluetooth SIG just to make sure they are using the Bluetooth trademarks correctly :)
 
G
#39 ·
I don't believe that is the issue.

Bluetooth has 79 available channels and uses spread-spectrum frequency hopping. Therefore both the car and the phone will be able to use any available channel within the 79 different bands.

If what you say is true, then InControl users and iPhone users will have issues all the time as the frequency can change at any moment depending on signal strength, interference etc. Your phone would never be able to maintain a constant connection. However, your issue is hearing incoming calls. But you can maintain a Bluetooth connection.
 
#40 ·
DiscoDriver said:
However, your issue is hearing incoming calls. But you can maintain a Bluetooth connection.
The issue is not hearing the ring tone... It only sounds on the phone, but the call comes up on the main screen (if it's on...) and if you press the button to answer, then the call itself is fine.
 
#42 ·
TBH I don't even know if my iPhone rings through the car system or not, the screen showing there is a call enough for me to know it's ringing, and the phone in my pocket ringing and vibrating is another clue.
 
G
#43 ·
iOS is compatible and works fine with InControl Touch. If your phone is ringing then it is not connected to the car via Bluetooth. If the phone is connected via Bluetooth then the actual phone will not ring.
 
#44 ·
To Disco Driver
That is no longer true. The dealer and LR headquarters have confirmed that the software installed on new cars since October 2018 does have both the phone itself ringing and also that tune played through the car speaker system when it is correctly linked via Bluetooth. They demonstrated it to me using other phones, not all iPhones. You can't say my phone is not connected by Bluetooth when I can:-

See incoming calls on the screen
Receive the call and talk using hands free and the volume is fine
See all my contacts on the screen and make calls to them and the volume is fine
See texts and get the LR system to convert them into the spoken word when I am driving
Play any tunes from my music on the phone through the car system by Bluetooth (the volume is fine and no, when I do that it doesn't play on the phone as well)

Everything works fine except for incoming calls ringing tone/tune

To Dashnine
That is what I do now, have the phone in my pocket. But in the last 4 cars, I haven't needed to do that and my preference is to have the phone linked by cable in the cubby so I can charge it and also play music through the link - then at 70mph it is difficult to hear the call and I am not always focusing on the screen so I can miss a call. Frankly, I will live with it. As I say, the first time I have ever had trouble with built in car hands free by Bluetooth. I cannot explain why a whole range of different iPhones from iPhone 4 through to iPhoneX will not work properly but an identical iPhone 8 to mine - and we checked all the settings are the same - works fine.
 
G
#45 ·
I have the latest InControl Touch software v3.4 and my iPhone does not ring when connected to the car via Bluetooth. A phone should not ring itself when connected via Bluetooth. I have connected iPhone 4, 5, 6S and X and they all work perfectly well and do not ring when connected via Bluetooth.

What I am saying is that when the phone rings it probably is NOT connected via Bluetooth but then connects. That is why everything works apart from the initial ringing. What they told you before about a channel not working is totally false.

Might I suggest that you double check the phone is definitely connected to the car via Bluetooth then dial it. At the same time the incoming call appears on the screen, up the volume on both the car and the phone. At this point the actual phone should not be ringing. It is is then it is not connected properly.
 
#46 ·
DiscoDriver said:
What I am saying is that when the phone rings it probably is NOT connected via Bluetooth but then connects. That is why everything works apart from the initial ringing.
No, that's not the case. If the phone was not connected via bluetooth as a phone then the phone icon, battery strength and signal would not be there. They are. So the phone *is* connected via bluetooth.

There's no point describing how it should work, and saying therefore there's no problem when clearly several people have the issue.

I don't agree that the various phones are identical, they can't be. IT doesn't work like that, if things behave differently then there is a difference somewhere, we just don't yet know what it is. My suspicion would be around AirPlay 2 and changes Apple have made around what gets control of audio. Since whatever it is on iOS that has changed some behaviour I have also had intermittent problems with bluetooth audio connections for music and these are definitely linked to other audio apps that can be active at the time the phone is connected. This prevents the audio connection of the phone. If you stop the audio app (Sonos in my case) and then disable/re-enable bluetooth on the Car, suddenly it finds the phone and audio works... Now 99% of the time I use my iPhone plugged in, however occasionally I don't plug in if it just a quick trip, and it has become much more random as to whether I get Buetooth audio.

I guess the question to ask people with iPhones that do not have the issue is do you have or use any AirPlay 2 devices with your phone at all?
 
G
#47 ·
Well I don't use anything but a Bluetooth connection and I am running the latest version of iOS and InControl Touch and have no problems across a range of iPhones. So there is no compatibility problem. Those phones have varying versions of Bluetooth but the way Bluetooth works is it drops to the lowest supported standard.

I agree that there is an issue, but I don't agree it is a systemic compatibility issue as everything works for me across a range of phones and setups.

The fact that the actual phone is ringing when it is supposed to be connected via Bluetooth is the root cause of the issue.

AirPlay 1 or 2 doesn't come into this as that is a completely different protocol and not supported on InControl Touch.
 
#48 ·
As far as I am concerned I am giving up and totally fed up with the whole subject. This will definitely be the last Jaguar or Land Rover car I will own. In spite of being British built, there is clearly an incompetency at the heart of their management.
For Disco Driver, you have a 2016 car. The interface for Bluetooth is different from yours which presumably creates its own ringing tone like my previous cars. My phone shows in the screen as soon as the car is started with the network provider and in my case, the fact it also has wi-fi connect. I can see all the detail about contacts etc before any incoming call is received For me that means Bluetooth is connected. JLR have confirmed and demonstrated that, even though I haven't seen it before, the phone DOES ring as well as playing the ring tone through the car system. It is true that when I first raised the issue that the dealer had no clue about this. JLR and the dealer have now had the car in for 10 working days on test and I have already posted their conclusion. Mine does all that but with the volume on max( 38), it is effectively inaudible when there is an incoming call once answered, everything is normal.
Anyway, it will be a BMW next time.
 
#49 ·
DiscoDriver said:
Well I don't use anything but a Bluetooth connection and I am running the latest version of iOS and InControl Touch and have no problems across a range of iPhones. So there is no compatibility problem.
That's effectively saying I don't have a problem so there isn't one when others clearly have the issue.

Likewise, Apple have made a lot of changes in iOS around how apps can handle audio, (mainly around AirPlay2 support) so to dismiss any of that as a contributory factor when there is evidence that Airplay2 enabled apps like Sonos can stop a bluetooth audio connection if active, is again just dismissive in an nonconstructive way. If the sum total of your contribution is to dismiss the issue because you don't have it, then silence may be the best option.

I wonder if the option to try next for those that do have the problem is to DFU a phone that has the problem (take a backup first in iTunes) and set it up as a new phone and don't load any apps. Then see if the phone ring returns. If it does work at that point then that does point the finger at an app somewhere.
 
G
#50 ·
My concern is with people saying it's an incompatibility when this is clearly not the case. But it has nothing to do with AirPlay as that is completely unconnected as it is the Bluetooth A2DP and CTP profiles that are in use.

I have said there is an issue but it's not systemic. I have also suggested resetting the phone. It could also be a faulting Bluetooth module in the car.

If the sum total of your contribution is to spread fear and uncertainty because you don't understand the issue, then silence may be the best option.
 
#51 ·
No-one has said it is a systemic issue other than you. It's clearly a problem that only impacts some users, and there is no pattern yet for even the type of phone as some iPhone 8's for example, work, and others do not, even on the same iOS level.

If you're going to get pedantic, then there are more bluetooth profiles involved than two. There's HFP, MAP, AVRCP, A2DP, PBAP and maybe some others, however, it's unlikely these are the main issue as these are implemented by iOS and if they were the problem then it would be systemic. Also iOS 12 is officially NOT compatible with ICT. JLR have only certified up to iOS 11.3. However, if we wanted to just believe that then we could simply ask CRC and take their word as gospel as they are always right, and no-one ever upgrades their phone beyond what JLR certify or buys new phones not on the list. (Same for Android with Galaxy S10 etc. and there are plenty of Android phone issues too where different manufacturers can use completely different hardware...)

The problem is far more subtle than 'it's not connected to bluetooth' and the AirPlay thing comes in not because I'm saying the phone or ICT use it to talk to each other (they don't), but purely because Apple keep tweaking the rules around how apps that handle audio have to behave in order to improve their AirPlay 2 experience for end users. Apple are big on user experience rules, and constantly change them. And it's apps that are most likely to be in use on a Bluetooth audio connection, as without some kind of audio app, you get no music by default. The beauty of a bluetooth audio connection is that you can stream from say Spotify, even if the in car system doesn't support it, and at a basic level (thanks to AVRCP) you can use the steering wheel controls to skip tracks etc. even if there is no convenient display on ICT for Spotify...

To be fair, this is the kind of thing it's impossible for any dealer to diagnose. This needs a phone that is displaying the issue to go to Gaydon where the ICT team can hook it up to a test rig, and determine which profiles (if any) are unable to correctly connect between the phone and ICT as they will be able to run the ICT software in a test/debug harness. That would help enormously in narrowing down the problem. I am more than happy to take my iPhone to Gaydon for a day if anyone from their ICT team reads these forums.

On my phone (XS using iOS 12) I can clearly demonstrate that Sonos (which does not use Bluetooth) can prevent my phone from being able to connect audio via Bluetooth to ICT if it was running and the last thing I used on my phone (letting it just timeout into lock mode) before I get in the car and try and use Bluetooth for playing music. How can that happen if its as simple as only Bluetooth is in use? Hence my suspicion, and I've only called it a suspicion, that Apple have made some rule changes around audio stream usage that maybe some apps are not correctly adhering to which then causes problems. The big thing Apple have been changing recently and tweaking (with more coming in iOS 13) is Airplay2 for their Homepod ecosystem and AirPlay 2 TV control (new in a recent iOS 12 update) which is why I'm guessing this is where the problem may be. Not with Airplay as a protocol, but with rules around audio channel control and audio hand-off.

To complicate further, ICT does allow two phones to be connected at the same time, one for phone use, and another for audio... Which implies that the straight audio connection (A2DP) is not required for the handsfree phone function... which also implies the handsfree function may not use A2DP to sound the ringer... or does it? These are things only the ICT software people can confirm, but to do that successfully they need a phone that has the issue.
 
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