The death of diesel? Or the future?

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Barnsh
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Barnsh » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:54 am

Ian_S wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:09 pm
I don't think cost cutting is what is required.

Jaguar is the brand that is struggling the most and as a Jaguar customer, I see the reasons as:

Poor engines choices - Yes diesel gate has hit JLR hard. and when the XE was launched, 2 litre diesels were where the fleet market was at. However, unlike ze Germans, JLR don't have a great range of Petrol engines. Yes the 5.0L V8 is relatively new and is a great halo engine, but there's a cavernous gap between it, and a couple of 4-pots in various states of tune. Ingenium is supposed to deliver a petrol straight six. Jag really need that, they have history with straight sixes and if combined with mild hybrid tech, could be smooth, powerful and efficient.

XE and XF too similar - I still prefer the old XF externally. It had more presence. Apart from the rear lights, you'd be hard pressed to tell and XE and XF apart, and with no real decent engine choice on the 'plusher' XF, I'd be amazed if sales hadn't tanked. There needs to be a bit more difference inside and out.

Where are the proper 'R' versions? - It's all very well having R-Sport trim levels, like BMW have M-Sport, but you need the real thing somewhere. The XF-R was a monster car, and Jag need a current equivalent. The project-8 is too extreme.

Dealerships - JLR needed to invest properly in their dealer network far earlier. Too many existing dealers were small, used to pre-XE Jag volumes. Even then they were a bit of a quaint throwback. When I bought mine about 5.5 years ago, the parts dept was a virtual box room and you couldn't even buy a decent keyring! The new dealerships are desperately needed. Existing ones are swamped by sheer volume and can't keep up with just normal servicing, let alone additional work, and this just frustrates people more than anything. If you like the car, and know the dealers can provide decent service, then you don't mind so much if it has a few niggles. But if the dealer is so busy it's like trying to book a doctors appointment, it ruins the whole experience.

No proper GT - Jag needs a proper GT, the F-Type isn't it. It's wider than the XK and just a tiny bit shorter, but way less practical. It's too shouty as well. It can't be a GT as there's no room for luggage, and it's too big and heavy (even built from Aluminium) to be a proper two seater sports car. In the E-Type you could go to the South of France, in the F-Type? Doubt you'd want to spend that long in it.

I really think it's the end experience at the moment that puts people off. The cars aren't that bad, but invariably it's like walking back in time when you visit most showrooms. Improve quality off the production line and the experience people have owning the cars and I think JLR will come good. Jag desperately need some more interesting engines and more air between the XE/XF. The recent Amazon Prime documentary on the i-Pace is something we should be proud a UK company is doing, and we need them to keep at the tech fore-front, but also they have to be at the retail forefront too, or no-one will dare to look.

My views, anyway :)
But they can’t have bigger engines until they sell more smaller engines, remember their WLTP and emissions governance is based on quota of vehicles sold. Thus they’ve had to remove some bigger engines to meet overall compliance.
Unlike BMW they don’t have the volume sales at the low end
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Ian_S » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:43 am

Is that the reason or is it simply that some of the models weren't selling enough to justify the cost of re-certification? And the fact that the are trying to ramp down on use of Ford sourced engines?

Surely Jaguar's CO2 emissions are part of JLR's overall figures, and LR sell many more 2.0D models than Jaguar do?

Good to see JLR's engines coming out as a lot cleaner than the competition even if they still exceed the actual limits. They should make a big deal out of that, and commit to becoming fully legal.
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Tata writes to reassure PM.

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:32 pm

According to the Sunday Times, chairman N. Chandrasekaran has written to TM to stress that the Tata Group plans to keep investing in JLR and has "no intention of selling the company". It's probably only a matter of time in that case. Or maybe Speth has been told to shut up and they're trying to rebuild bridges.
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Barnsh » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:04 am

The new “ULEZ” charge cones into force in London from April.
It replaces the current congestion charge /Tcharge.

Vast difference between Petrol and Diesel requirements.
Check your vehicle on here

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... -zone/cars


https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... ssion-zone



And from 2021 it’s a huge area!
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/ulez-boundary ... r-2021.pdf

FF91D6BE-1AC8-47D1-A400-239A47B435AE.jpeg

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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Barnsh » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:17 am

Residents need to change vehicles by 2021....JLR might have lost the Chelsea Tractor Fan club, lost of big diesel Range Rovers that might be a bargain before 2021

******
Residents
Residents who are registered for the residents' Congestion Charge discount will be granted a time-limited 'sunset period' where a 100% discount from the ULEZ will apply to their vehicles. This will give them more time to change their vehicle to meet the ULEZ standards
The discount will be available to those who live within the ULEZ and in designated areas next to the boundary where the Congestion Charge residents' discount applies. The sunset period will apply from 8 April 2019 to 24 October 2021
This discount will only apply while they live within the zone and are registered with us
Residents using a vehicle that doesn't meet the T-Charge emissions standards will continue to pay the T-Charge, at a discounted rate of 90%, during the ULEZ resident sunset period
From 25 October 2021, residents must pay the full daily ULEZ charge to drive a vehicle in the zone if it does not meet the ULEZ standards
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Badgerface » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 am

The sooner that Lefty Khan is voted OUT the better.....he has no interest in London or Londoners at heart whatsoever...it's all Party-politically motivated, and an excuse to stripe residents. I always thought that there could be no worse than Ken Livingstone given the memorable horrors of the GLC, but this pillock takes the cake and actually usurps him

Meanwhile, blood still runs in the gutters nightly, as demonising drivers further is clearly more important than tackling knife crime....w@nker!
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Past master » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm

Steady on Badger! Knife crime kills dozens of people in London, diesel exhausts kill thousands. It's inconvenient but it's sensible. Chelsea tractor owners won't be hit as they buy a new RR every year. The people who will really be hit are tradesmen with their vans. Many have to drive from outside London, and not a few have ancient vehicles. Expect their prices to go up accordingly. There may also be a rise in the frequency of fake Latvian number plates - quite a few of those around S London!
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by maptin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:34 pm

JLR should seriously look at going down the hydrogen and/or PHEV route. Ok, hydrogen is not freely available at the roadside, although SHELL have now deployed pumps in a few (less than half-a-dozen) locations in the UK. Hydrogen can be used in fuel-cells to generate electricity in-vehicle to power electric drive motors, or can also be used in (modified) ICE engines which could be used in a PHEV configuration, too. Current forms of hydrogen production use fossil fuel as a starting point but now with the availability of wind and solar farms it is economically feasible to use renewable energy to directly produce hydrogen via electrolysis, so zero carbon footprint. In fact, it is a good way of storing energy from these sources for when they don't operate due to lack of wind or sun. Electric motors have excellent torque at low revs so good for the towing fraternity.
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Barnsh » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:37 pm

I can’t wait to see how effective these Electric vehicles will be in snow like the beast from the east.
What happens with the folk stuck on motorways trying to run their engines to stay warm with no battery life left . It’s pretty well known batteries suffer in the cold.
Range in EV is reduced on winter tyers too when fitted,
Interesting times if they call for 4x4 drivers to help out with hospital s etc in a snow mageddon situation, that’s for sure, when they’ve taxed them off the road.
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by maptin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:59 pm

Barnsh wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:37 pm
I can’t wait to see how effective these Electric vehicles will be in snow like the beast from the east.
What happens with the folk stuck on motorways trying to run their engines to stay warm with no battery life left . It’s pretty well known batteries suffer in the cold.
Range in EV is reduced on winter tyers too when fitted,
Interesting times if they call for 4x4 drivers to help out with hospital s etc in a snow mageddon situation, that’s for sure, when they’ve taxed them off the road.
That's why I advocate (P)HEV - combination of fuel-cell or ICE generating electricity. PHEV technology give (sort-of) best of both worlds - runs off electricity until the battery runs down but normal ICE after that. Fuel-cell vehicles have a similar range to normal ICE, as do PHEVs. Plug-in (the 'P' in PHEV) means you can re-charge the battery at home or road-side chargers.

At my recent Land Rover experience I was told that they plan to use hybrids for that as soon as they're available.
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