The death of diesel? Or the future?

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Dashnine
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Dashnine » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:40 pm

XT9710 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:55 pm
A bloke in our local pub just got a brand new tiguan, company car he has no idea about wltp etc etc , its a large company the car could have been ordered month ago, he just chose it from ' ordered stock'
Cars are dribbling through, depends if the particular weight / spec has been signed off. Also it might be a 2018 stock car though.
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by XT9710 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:00 pm

either way he likes it, raved about the active cruise control


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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Dashnine » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:09 pm

XT9710 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:00 pm
either way he likes it, raved about the active cruise control
Yeah, it's a damn sight cheaper on VW / Skoda cars than LR (£300.instead of £1000). Drove a Velar with it a few weeks ago and it's good, especially I should think if you do a lot of motorway miles. Didn't try the Stop / Go in traffic function though as my nerve wasn't up to it....
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:32 pm

JLR finally produced the numbers for November as the TTM stock price lingers at around $11. Things that leap straight off the (LR) page are that they sold fewer of both the Velar and Discovery 5 models last month, down by 11% and 36% respectively: QTD that's 2,328 fewer D5s and 539 fewer Velars leaving the showrooms than this time last year. The jarring surprise for JLR executives was not so much that fewer D5s have been sold this year but that the quarterly point of "max Velar" has arrived only 18 months after it first shipped. Disco Sport and Evoque sales in the 11 months up to end of November remain at 72% compared to last year: that's 59,311 fewer units sold worldwide, although around 15,000 of these could be down to the problems in China.

E-pace and I-pace are the current stars at Jaguar, both making a healthy contribution as overall sales for the month and quarter rose by 8.9% & 10.2% respectively. Other models are best not mentioned.

novembervolumeannouncement.xlsx
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Tata appoints Boston Group to sort out JLR

Post by TeddyBear » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:20 pm

Guardian article this afternoon saying that Tata Motors has appointed the Boston Consulting Group to put together a "turnaround plan" for loss-making subsidiary Jaguar Land Rover. "Several people close to the carmaker said JLR will outline in January the short-term element of its plan, including the loss of up to 5,000 jobs." It would be interesting to know who the MCs are ultimately reporting to, Presumably it's not R. Speth.

Other BCG automotive references.
NA Manufacturer: https://www.bcg.com/industries/automoti ... turer.aspx
An OEM: https://www.bcg.com/industries/automoti ... tions.aspx
European OEM: https://www.bcg.com/capabilities/operat ... costs.aspx
Latin American Parts Co.: https://www.bcg.com/capabilities/global ... lobal.aspx
Renault: https://www.bcg.com/industries/automoti ... l-era.aspx


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Re: Tata appoints Boston Group to sort out JLR

Post by shouldvegotamerc » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:18 pm

TeddyBear wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:20 pm
Guardian article this afternoon saying that Tata Motors has appointed the Boston Consulting Group to put together a "turnaround plan" for loss-making subsidiary Jaguar Land Rover. "Several people close to the carmaker said JLR will outline in January the short-term element of its plan, including the loss of up to 5,000 jobs." It would be interesting to know who the MCs are ultimately reporting to, Presumably it's not R. Speth.
They invented the now famous BCG Matrix - Or "How to identify your Dogs and turn them into Cash Cows and Stars." Some interesting motor examples given here and, although now old, BCG updated their model in 2014 and use it for recommending strategic investment choices at struggling companies. If there is to be culling of model lines and BCG have a hand in the process, the difficult decisions will probably be made on an assessment of market growth and relative market share along these lines.

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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Ian_S » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:09 pm

I don't think cost cutting is what is required.

Jaguar is the brand that is struggling the most and as a Jaguar customer, I see the reasons as:

Poor engines choices - Yes diesel gate has hit JLR hard. and when the XE was launched, 2 litre diesels were where the fleet market was at. However, unlike ze Germans, JLR don't have a great range of Petrol engines. Yes the 5.0L V8 is relatively new and is a great halo engine, but there's a cavernous gap between it, and a couple of 4-pots in various states of tune. Ingenium is supposed to deliver a petrol straight six. Jag really need that, they have history with straight sixes and if combined with mild hybrid tech, could be smooth, powerful and efficient.

XE and XF too similar - I still prefer the old XF externally. It had more presence. Apart from the rear lights, you'd be hard pressed to tell and XE and XF apart, and with no real decent engine choice on the 'plusher' XF, I'd be amazed if sales hadn't tanked. There needs to be a bit more difference inside and out.

Where are the proper 'R' versions? - It's all very well having R-Sport trim levels, like BMW have M-Sport, but you need the real thing somewhere. The XF-R was a monster car, and Jag need a current equivalent. The project-8 is too extreme.

Dealerships - JLR needed to invest properly in their dealer network far earlier. Too many existing dealers were small, used to pre-XE Jag volumes. Even then they were a bit of a quaint throwback. When I bought mine about 5.5 years ago, the parts dept was a virtual box room and you couldn't even buy a decent keyring! The new dealerships are desperately needed. Existing ones are swamped by sheer volume and can't keep up with just normal servicing, let alone additional work, and this just frustrates people more than anything. If you like the car, and know the dealers can provide decent service, then you don't mind so much if it has a few niggles. But if the dealer is so busy it's like trying to book a doctors appointment, it ruins the whole experience.

No proper GT - Jag needs a proper GT, the F-Type isn't it. It's wider than the XK and just a tiny bit shorter, but way less practical. It's too shouty as well. It can't be a GT as there's no room for luggage, and it's too big and heavy (even built from Aluminium) to be a proper two seater sports car. In the E-Type you could go to the South of France, in the F-Type? Doubt you'd want to spend that long in it.

I really think it's the end experience at the moment that puts people off. The cars aren't that bad, but invariably it's like walking back in time when you visit most showrooms. Improve quality off the production line and the experience people have owning the cars and I think JLR will come good. Jag desperately need some more interesting engines and more air between the XE/XF. The recent Amazon Prime documentary on the i-Pace is something we should be proud a UK company is doing, and we need them to keep at the tech fore-front, but also they have to be at the retail forefront too, or no-one will dare to look.

My views, anyway :)
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Dashnine » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:21 pm

“The recent Amazon Prime documentary on the i-Pace“

This is a very interesting programme, and what a difference between Callum (Jag Design Director) and McGovern (LR Design Director and not in the programme).

Callum, who sent drawings to Bill Heynes at Jaguar when he was 13 years old and launched the i-Pace exactly 50 years later comes across as a genuine, engaging professional. Unlike McGovern.
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"JLR Has Been Seriously Mismanaged"

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:38 pm

Totally agree, the film is testimony to a great man. The phrase "difference between style and substance" has never been better illustrated than it was by your comparison of JLR's two top designers. But alas we no longer live in the age that forged the substance and integrity of men like Ian Callum. The world at large no longer even understands that there IS a difference between style and substance - let alone why it should matter - and this is half the problem in a world populated by shallow fools who think they know everything - while actually knowing nothing.

Meanwhile a few pertinent extracts culled from the FT's original article:

JLR Has Been Seriously Mismanaged in Recent Years
FT Original Article*

“It’s do or die [for JLR] at the moment,” said Robin Zhu, an analyst at Bernstein in Hong Kong who covers JLR and its parent company, Tata Motors. “JLR has been seriously mismanaged in recent years, with cost runaways, products disappointing in the market, and hedging issues costing it billions. Meanwhile there’s arguably been a lack of accountability in the management ranks.” Quoting three sources, the FT says Tata Motors has "drafted in" Boston Consulting Group to draw up turnround plans: there are two strands to the plan: the shorter-term Project Charge and the medium-term Project Accelerate.

Charge is a three-year plan that will focus on generating costs savings within 18 months. Costs will be cut by £1bn, investment by £1bn while making "other savings" of £500m. It has already implemented an immediate hiring and non-essential travel freeze, and begun reviewing its use of agency staff. The longer term plan is expected to reduce the number of models in JLR’s often-competing range: for example where Jaguar products overlap with Land Rover models such as the Velar and RR Sport. Sales in the three months to September fell 13 per cent, and only 3 out of the current 13 models saw sales rise (Velar, Jaguar E-Pace and I-Pace EV)

The Land Rover Discovery Sport, its biggest selling model, saw demand fall by more than 11 per cent.

Well, perhaps you should have listened to us, that's all I can say.

*WIthout an FT subscription that link probably won't work. Easy to fix: go to google.com and search for "Jaguar Land Rover set to cut thousands of jobs in new year" and click the referral link.
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Flacko » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:47 am

Here is an article from the Times. JLR comes out the best for a change but still not great. Must be all that Ad Blue! "Renault and Nissan are the worst performing motor manufacturers for air pollution, with the average new diesel car they produce emitting 11 times the legal limit, a study has found.
Jaguar Land Rover is the best performing company but its new diesel cars still emit more than double the legal limit of 0.08g per km for nitrogen oxides (NOx), according to the largest roadside testing programme to date.
The average new diesel car emits six times as much NOx on the road as in the official laboratory test, which does not reflect real world conditions." See link for full article.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wors ... bd80a3ea85
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