The death of diesel? Or the future?

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PhilMabbots17
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Diesel "Ripple effects" still being felt.

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Sat May 11, 2019 2:09 am

While 34,000 Evoque, XE and XF diesel owners wait for more news regarding the CO2 recall, it appears that the after-shocks from 2015 are still reverberating around the rest of the industry.
Ask any executive of an auto company what business they are in and you’re unlikely to hear the word “cars”. Instead you will be told they are now a tech company or focused on “mobility”. For all the desire to model themselves as the next Apple or Google, the stench of Volkswagen’s “dieselgate” scandal still stinks up the the corridors of power at European carmakers. Nearly four years on from the German car giant admitted to fitting cheat devices to 11 million vehicles in order to rig US emissions tests, the fines continue to pile up....

Irish Times. 9th May 2019
9 May 2019 - Ripple effect from VW ‘dieselgate’ scandal still being felt
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/can ... -1.3885317

7 May 2019 - Porsche Fined $599 Million for Its Role in Volkswagen Dieselgate Scandal
https://www.thedrive.com/news/27874/por ... te-scandal

7 May 2019 - BMW’s profit falls 74 percent after setting aside 1.4 billion euros for possible EU fine
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/bm ... le-eu-fine

26 April 2019 - Ford under criminal investigation for emissions testing problems
https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/26/1851 ... dieselgate

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Barnsh
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Barnsh » Sat May 11, 2019 4:35 pm

DiscoStu2019 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:19 am
Whilst I do like the picture - most scientific data puts the amount of CO2 emitted by ALL the world’s volcanoes (land and sea) as between 200 and 650 million tonnes per year.

Now compare that with the 24-29 BILLION tonnes per year that man’s industrial and automotive output produces.

Still, damn i’ll miss diesel and petrol engines when they’re gone. :(
Yep we e had all the fun and freedom of roaring petrol engines, we’ll leave our kids to the electric battery and not so much fun 😀😀
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Ian_S » Tue May 14, 2019 10:27 pm

Some pretty alarming trends coming though these days I think.

Most alarming is the younger generations willingness to just accept what's fed to them without questioning it. If they don't wake up soon, we'll have lost a huge amount of private mobility just because someone said it would make a cool ride sharing app...

I'd be willing to trade actually driving on a motorway for the car doing it, if that meant the speed you could cover long distances was reduced because autonomous driving meant the cars could go faster safely. Driving standards on busy motorways are frankly shocking these days and smart motorways are IMO anything but. However out side of major motorways I don't see autonomous driving helping. Likewise ride sharing outside major cities won't work, and I don't see how it's much different to Uber now. No car based solution will match the ability of the underground or equivalents to move lots of people quickly in places like London anyway. Who drives in London if you can avoid it?
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Yasmar » Wed May 15, 2019 12:21 am

We face a very different future that’s for sure, where will the millions that live in flats apartment blocks and houses without driveways charge their electric cars in the years to come? I can’t see local councils or energy companies accommodating them on the grounds of cost alone.
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Ian_S » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:16 am

JLR and Mercedes doing their best to prove diesels can be clean :)

https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/connecte ... enz&curl=1

What's more worrying though is all the behind the scenes tinkering with the EURO 6 standards.

Pre-WLTP it seems the NOx figures were basically a lie, at the moment manufacturers can have double the actual standard for NOx emissions, shrinking to 1.5x soon... Maybe eventually we'll actually meet the EURO 6 standard just in time for EURO 7... It's no wonder people are turned off.

Still, good to see JLR & Merc going beyond the bare minimum.

What won't be so good is if some of us who thought EURO 6 meant EURO 6 find that our vehicles can't go into low emissions zones, or suffer additional taxes, even when we though we were doing the right thing.
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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by DiscoSportDave » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:34 pm

Hybrids (and buying credits from EV companies - like Fiat ius doing with Tesla) will cover the immediate short term goal for fleet emission compliance - the 2025 limit on the other hand will mean high environmantal tax (ca 3k euros per vehicle) or the need for EV. Younger generation are less interested in the way a car drives, more interested in tech, gadgets and connectivity. This is a real issue for BMW, as their old slogan of 'Ultimate Driving Machine' is less desirable than 20+ years ago.

Ultimate - under challenge from less people wanting to drive, most see it as a chore these days. Also pressure from Volvo and Kia (warranty, but quite euro looking vehicles these days)
Driving - people won't drive themselves in 15-20 years time, it'll be a transport unit of some form
Machine - well it will perhaps always be a machine of one form or another, but not necessarily a car form we know today

Look at Singapore for how well a fully integrated, cheap public transport system can work - high car owenership costs (taxes, permits and tolls_) mean a car isn't necessary and more of a status symbol / private space acquisition. Of course SG is very small compared to UK , and had the advantage of developing something from little, the UK is hindered by hundreds of years of transport routes and planning.
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NOx effects exaggerated?

Post by VeryDiscoSport » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:34 pm

Has the automotive sector had its chain jerked by the greens over the dangers from NOx?

German broadcaster DW argues convincingly [28:25] that the health threat from urban pollution by diesels is far from proven...

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JLR Fuel Questionnaire

Post by TeddyBear » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:23 pm

As I continue the search for my perfect vehicle I found these helpful guides on fuel choice:

https://www.jaguar.co.uk/owners/diesel-petrol-or-electric/index.html

https://www.landrover.com/ownership/our-range-of-hybrid-petrol-or-euro-6-diesel-suvs/index.html

Having entered accurately all my "driving style" parameters on the Jaguar site it told me that I should buy an electric vehicle. Repeating the exercise using the Land Rover version - same questions, same answers - it turns out that Jaguar is wrong because I really need to buy a petrol car. I am therefore presuming that if I'd had access to this tool 2 years ago it would have told me to buy a diesel. :D

To be fair, it's a step in the right direction if it helps to curtail misselling of the D8 diesels. But I still can't help feeling that the manufacturer is now trying desperately to put some distance befween itself and the dealers who were responsible for signing the contracts that are now causing so much pain. Too many coincidences.

PS. MODs, why are the active hyperlinks not working? BBCode is ON


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Re: The death of diesel? Or the future?

Post by Dashnine » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:36 am

Hmmm, let’s think about this for a second - Jaguar have an electric car on sale, but LR don’t so their ‘best’ offering is petrol for your scenario. It’s hardly like LR are going to say don’t buy a LR as you need an electric SUV which we can’t sell you!
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