Halogen lights replacement advice

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Sparky007
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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by Sparky007 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:49 pm

Here’s a good test/report on led replacements... almost a year old but concludes decent LEDs can meet/beat halogens. Important to note the issues and poor / dangerous performance of lesser/cheaper LEDs.

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/blog/ ... brightest/


MrGray
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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by MrGray » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:48 am

Nice test, but note it was done with a projector headlight, so there is a shield that guarantees a good cutoff.

I do recommend you try to do the same test if you decide on some LED bulbs.


Sparky007
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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by Sparky007 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:03 am

Yes, the test qualifies it’s baseline by detailing use of a projector headlight. BUT also says that “All dipped beam headlights have a cut-off”. Both projector and reflector types have cut offs..... The test uses the projector type as it apparently has a more definitive ‘cut off’ (I think a requirement for HID lamps). Presumably this is intentional to demonstrate the result of any poorly designed lamps that essentially move the centre point (LED or indeed any technology lamp).

What I take from the test is that LED lamps are not an issue per se. It’s the form factor and placement of the actual LED’s in alignment with the mounting and fitting housing that is the important bit. As the test shows, when this is met, LED’s or indeed any light source will be correctly ‘cut off’. So, a quality LED lamp, with good lumen output and its diode alignment/geometry should be as good if not an improvement over standard halogens.

As such LED’s are not cheap for me to ‘try’ different lamps, and it seems many before me have toiled with the same question, does anyone have any suggestions for me to narrow down my consideration?

Sparky.


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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by Troon » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:18 pm

Sparky007 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:42 pm
Not sure what the issue with swap out of the halogens for LEDs is though? Assuming the lux/lumen output is similar (not too much over or under) and the colour temp meets that ‘white’ then what’s the problem? LEDs apparently last longer than both hids and halogen, most other auto lighting has swapped from halogen/filament to LEDs. I could see a problem if the led fitting and the actual diodes were very differently positioned in the lamp housing (out of alignment with reflectors). But I should imagine the lamp manufacturers have considered that?
The halogen assembly with its reflectors is designed around the precisely positioned and oriented filament in the specified bulb. LEDs cannot provide the intensity of a halogen filament with the same positioning: they provide equivalent overall light output but from a much greater surface.

The makers of the LED lamps have considered their profit margins. In the UK, it's not legal to retrofit non-E-marked emitters (LEDs, HID kits) into assemblies designed for halogen lamps due to the virtual certainty that they'll dazzle.

To avoid the colour mismatch with your front fog lamps, simply leave the fogs off. If you can safely drive at more than about 30mph, fog lamps are not needed, and the front fogs are little more than a styling accessory on most modern cars.

The only legal options you have are: try to find a better halogen bulb; change your car for one with HIDs.
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Barnsh
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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by Barnsh » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:23 pm

It’s not just the way the lamp fits the enclosure or reflectors , it also requires the correct glass /plastic ( nowadays) at the front of the light.

As for trial and error , your going to need to check the aim of the beam correctly each time, Plus ensure they are CREE lights for canbus wiring with the correct ballast resistor and also possibly set up self levelling and washers.

It’s taken a while for MOT to catch up with regulations but the type approval cannot be ignored as you are modifying your vehicle , so that undoubtedly affects your insurance.

A bit OTT you may think , but there are reasons for rules and regulations.
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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by The Highlander » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:03 pm

Having seen peps “convert” the headlights on a variety of Land Rover, I agree with Barnsh. You’d best leave alone.

The only one that worked reasonably well was a Disco 4, Halogen to Xenon, but that had headlamp wash on already and it was self levelling with the air suspension. Still needed enabling or the dip beam wouldn’t work and they aren’t any closer to that for the DS on Autologic or Faultmate web sites.

If that was a must have, you should have purchased a car with it on tbh.


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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:34 pm

Troon wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:18 pm
The halogen assembly with its reflectors is designed around the precisely positioned and oriented filament in the specified bulb. LEDs cannot provide the intensity of a halogen filament with the same positioning: they provide equivalent overall light output but from a much greater surface.

The makers of the LED lamps have considered their profit margins. In the UK, it's not legal to retrofit non-E-marked emitters (LEDs, HID kits) into assemblies designed for halogen lamps due to the virtual certainty that they'll dazzle.

To avoid the colour mismatch with your front fog lamps, simply leave the fogs off. If you can safely drive at more than about 30mph, fog lamps are not needed, and the front fogs are little more than a styling accessory on most modern cars.

The only legal options you have are: try to find a better halogen bulb; change your car for one with HIDs.
Fully agree. I looked everywhere for better main beam bulbs and found to my dismay and annoyance that I was stuck with crap lights. Unfortunately, the brightest legal H15 bulb on the market today is still the Osram 64176 - which is presumably why JLR specified it.
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Sparky007
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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by Sparky007 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:00 pm

Swapping halogen to LED’s.... Rules, regulation, legal?

This is from the latest MOT testing manual:

“Existing halogen headlamp units shouldn’t be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp”

No mention of similar restriction with LED’s. No mention of self levelling or washers for LED’s either.

So, if I could find and fit quality replacement LED’s that maintain geometry and provide beam pattern as shown in the test report document & MOT test manual, then what’s the problem?

Sparky.


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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by Badgerface » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:24 pm

I was under the impression from an MOT Tester over on freel2.com that the testers were NOT ALLOWED to remove any parts of the vehicle during the test. Further, if the relevant parts were not fitted (Washers/Levelling Kits) then they COULD NOT be tested and subsequently failed. If they WERE fitted, then they HAD to be working.

I think that the latest interpretation is based along the lines of if a chav rocks up with a 2001-reg Golf TDi and ridiculously bright blue retro fitted bulbs, then clearly it's a fail, as the vehicle never left the factory with them in the first place at that age, and the candela is a totally incorrect colour.

What the EU demand (and hopefully not for much longer) and what they get when dictating to VOSA/MOT testers is ambiguous at best.

As regards LED lighting, it's too recent a technology for anyone to really comment on, as in the main, vehicles fitted with this type of lighting are too new to require an MOT at this moment in time. Hopefully, as previously mentioned, we will soon be free of the tyranny that hamstrings owners from upgrading their lighting legitimately.
Last edited by Badgerface on Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Halogen lights replacement advice

Post by Barnsh » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:30 pm

Sparky007 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:00 pm
Swapping halogen to LED’s.... Rules, regulation, legal?

This is from the latest MOT testing manual:

“Existing halogen headlamp units shouldn’t be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp”

No mention of similar restriction with LED’s. No mention of self levelling or washers for LED’s either.

So, if I could find and fit quality replacement LED’s that maintain geometry and provide beam pattern as shown in the test report document & MOT test manual, then what’s the problem?

Sparky.
But you need to read the law not just MOT guidance , cars are manufactured to legal standards and compliance and thus type approval , they are not manufactured to pass an MOT.

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