Rejection finally complete - oil dilution

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townandcountry
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Rejection finally complete - oil dilution

Post by townandcountry » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:04 pm

It's be a very long and drawn out saga, but our rejection is finally complete. The vehicle was collected yesterday and the financial settlement came through today - 50 weeks after I first made my complaint. Hopefully anyone else struggling against the rejection process can take comfort from my eventual success and not give in!

The basis of my complaint was that the car was "not as described" due to the prominent and incorrect claims in the published sales literature at the time of my purchase, stating the new Ingenium engines were "... more affordable and convenient to own thanks to servicing intervals extended from 16,000 to 21,000 miles/two years".

As we know those claims were withdrawn in all literature from June 2017, and JRLP0100 appeared making it obvious that the description was factually inaccurate. At the time I began my rejection process I'd already had my first oil change light come on around 8,000 miles, and I'd been told by the dealer that my driving style meant I could expect to require oil services at this interval in future.

I still had some outstanding finance on the vehicle as I'd taken it to get a deposit contribution. I had always intended to clear that finance after 6 months, but I decided to hold onto it so as not to take any action that could indicate I accepted the vehicle and also to keep the legal relationship unchanged. I'm very pleased I took that approach in the end, as it left an additional step available to me before going Full Legal.

My initial complaint went in to Black Horse (Land Rover Financial Services), and after some back and forth they eventually refused it in November. This is despite some telephone calls with them during their investigation where they agreed that misrepresentation had occurred (conveniently, all calls are recorded ;)). In their refusal they attempted to claim that this was not their responsibility as they had no representation at the point of sale.

After Christmas I took the complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman (the advantage of my contract being with the finance company), and in July their investigator issued his findings and recommendations categorically in my favour. These were not binding unless both parties agreed - I did, but unsurprisingly Black Horse did not. That meant the complaint went in the queue for an "acutal" Ombudsman to review and issue a binding decision, which was to happen in September.

At the 11th hour, before an Ombudsman took the case, Black Horse made me an offer to accept the rejection and compensate me close to the level the investigator had recommended. I suspect this was because they knew the Ombudsman's decision would go against them and they didn't want that on their record, but that is just speculation.

I ultimately accepted their offer with only minor adjustments, as it was already substantially better for me than what I had budgeted on accepting when I first raised the complaint.

I found out that the car will go straight from me to auction. If anyone wants a well cared for '17 model year HSE in red with a black roof, it's going through BCA Blackbushe at one of their Monday auctions... It's got GTechniq Crystal Serum applied, unfortunately the 7-year warranty for that is not portable to a new owner though. Seriously, if anyone is tempted, PM me and I'll happily go through the full details of the car.

For anyone who's interested this was our first and last experience of the Land Rover brand. We've moved on to a Volvo XC90 and had great service from the dealer, with a car that feels like it was hewn from a solid block of luxury. I will miss the sure-footed offroad capability of the DS though, particularly in the winter :(

This forum has been a great support over the time I've had the car, from small questions through to help with the bigger problems I've had to deal with. It really shows that the people here are a great bunch, and you all make it a nice place to be. I might come back and hang out occasionally as the Swedes don't seem to have (need?) such a great community.

Thank you all!
Rejected - MY17 HSE 180 auto, not as described.


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PaulCP
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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by PaulCP » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:42 pm

Excellent news and really pleased for you.👍

The moral of the story, “perseverance pays in the end, don’t let the big boys grind you down thinking that you will eventually go away”

However, don’t forget that the LR stance on this will be “Brexit is to blame” :lol:
Now: Lexus RX 450h F Sport + Premier Pack
GONE Jan 2018:- HSE Lux Firenze Red (MY17), Ivory Interior, Adaptive Dynamics, Adaptive Headlights, Surround Cameras,

Previous: Range Rover Sport HSE Black Edn, Ipanema Sand


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Badgerface
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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by Badgerface » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:45 pm

I am delighted to hear that you got the result that you were owed. It just goes to show that perseverance pays dividends in the long term.

It's very sad that probably, you will always remember Land Rover for the downside. I am fortunate to have memories of them when they made solid, dependable reliable vehicles, rather than the stuff made out of plasticine today to appease variou lobbyists and politicians. Both I and others on these forums maintain the stance that the DS COULD have been such a superb vehicle had it been thought out better from an engineering point of view, and not rushed to market, again to appease the aforementioned.

Please do pop back on here from time to time - like many, I will be very interested to hear how life pans out with the XC90, it looks like a very impressive vehicle, and I sincerely do hope that it meets all your expectations, and hopefully exceeds them. Hopefully, as JLR lose sales to Chery, they might realise that they have a major problem with style over substance.

All the very best, and stay in touch.
17MY HSE Luxury TD4 Ingenium 180ps - Aintree Green with Black Pack/ICTP/825w Meridian Audio
13MY HSE Luxury FL2 2.2 SD4 190ps - Baltic Blue with NO Oil dilution issues whatsoever!
12MY HSE FL2. 2.2 SD4 190ps - Sumatra Black - Gone


Barnsh
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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by Barnsh » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:08 pm

Well done , and great perseverance!
The XC90 is a lovely car enjoy it .
Pop back and please give us a pros and cons in the off topic area , it will help others out too.

Black horse AKA Lloyd’s are a disgrace ,but a partner with JLR so to be expected.

Happy Motoring

Go get a bottle of bubbly to celebrate 🍾🍾🥂🥂🥂🥂
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


simon
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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by simon » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:18 pm

You’ll have no issue with the Volvo come winter. It’s a fine car many Swedes enjoy when the winter comes 👍🏻

Regards LF Finance... I had no issue with my DS rejection. I didn’t even speak to them. My dealer handled the whole thing for me.
There are far better forums to be welcomed at than this one that locks threads because certain members can’t take a bit of criticism :roll:


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townandcountry
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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by townandcountry » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:03 pm

Barnsh wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:08 pm
Go get a bottle of bubbly to celebrate 🍾🍾🥂🥂🥂🥂
It's a school night tonight, but there's one in the fridge ready for Friday!
Rejected - MY17 HSE 180 auto, not as described.


AndyA
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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by AndyA » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:56 pm

Well done, interesting reading. This is something that's really annoyed me ever since my first, earlier than expected service and then the discovery of JRLP0100. Just past 2 years ownership, would I be too late to pursue rejection or early finance completion on this basis?


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by NoDiscoSport » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:29 am

This is an outstanding result and my hearty congratulations go to t+c for his persistence and resilience in pushing this through to a satisfactory conclusion.

This result will now be of great significance to many others who also feel that they were misled by the servicing claims into buying a Discovery Sport, only to find themselves being blamed for a problem with premature oil dilution that the company said was due to an incorrect "driving style". The technical evidence and JLR's own service compliance notification published in July 2017 demonstrates that, in most cases, this was misleading because it's actually the result of a known fault which the company had already disclosed in July 2017 with service compliance notification, JLRP00100

It sounds from t+c's account that the respondent's last-minute decision to concede defeat was a calculated move to avoid having the "scheme operator" (financial ombudsman) record a "compulsory jurisdiction" under s.228 of the Financial Services and Markets Act, 2000. This would have left an indelible mark against JLR in the form of written record of the hearing and its jurisdiction which, presumably, could then have been cited in subsequent hearings, or simply submitted in advance by anyone else wishing to make a similar complaint. But all is not lost. The fact is that when push came to shove JLR's financial partners conceded defeat in the face of a determined and well-presented case that they knew they couldn't win. They will do so again, but next time they might not be able to re-use the same defensive delaying tactics.

That's because this episode resulted in the waste of the scheme operator's valuable time and resources. They aren't like the motor ombudsman. This is a legal entity established by an Act of Parliament under the Laws of England and Wales. They have considerable powers which at least match those of lower courts. They don't take kindly to having to list cases for a hearing that then becomes unnecessary because the respondent (clearly engaged in a game of "who-blinks-first-loses" with the complainant) conceded defeat at the last minute because they knew that a "voluntary jurisdiction" under s.227 of the Act wouldn't leave a written record. One hopes that the scheme operator has taken note for the future, so that the next time a defendant tries the same trick it will be picked up and dealt with firmly.

The forum contains all the tools and information needed to reject a Discovery Sport that is failing to make its published service intervals where the owner believed in good faith that they were buying a car that would run for 2 years or 21,000 miles between each service. T+C and I discussed our cases last year and shared information on the best way to go about a rejection of this nature. Following his post above I've included below a section from my own rejection letter which was sent to the supplying dealer on Thursday 26th October 2017, immediately following my receipt of JLR's letter dated 24th October 2017. Please feel free to cut and paste and PM me if you require any further assistance with a rejection.
26th October 2017.

I bought this car mainly because of the claims made on Page 46 of the sales brochure relating to the extended servicing regime as I thought that this would provide me with enhanced affordability and convenience. My experience has been the total opposite of what was claimed. These problems have had nothing to do with the way the car has been driven, a fact which has now been confirmed in writing by Jaguar Land Rover. In addition to the higher costs of servicing and the inconvenience of needing more frequent services, the car uses more than the expected amount of AdBlue while higher than expected amounts of active regeneration are adding a further 4% to 5% to fuel costs.

A three to four-fold increase in servicing costs relating to oil changes and other increased costs of ownership associated with the “higher than expected” active regeneration means that the car is not “as described” within the meaning of Section 11 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

This represents a breach of contract on your part and therefore I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed for its full purchase price of £xx,000. As I have repeatedly stated, had I known at the end of May 2017 what I know now about the problems with this vehicle I would not have made the purchase.
Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.pdf
(1.03 MiB) Downloaded 88 times
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by NoDiscoSport » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:06 am

NoDiscoSport wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:29 am
That's because this episode resulted in the waste of the scheme operator's valuable time and resources. They aren't like the motor ombudsman. This is a legal entity established by an Act of Parliament under the Laws of England and Wales. They have considerable powers which at least match those of lower courts. They don't take kindly to having to list cases for a hearing that then becomes unnecessary because the respondent (clearly engaged in a game of "who-blinks-first-loses" with the complainant) conceded defeat at the last minute because they knew that a "voluntary jurisdiction" under s.227 of the Act wouldn't leave a written record. One hopes that the scheme operator has taken note for the future, so that the next time a defendant tries the same trick it will be picked up and dealt with firmly.
Correction: It's the Financial Services Authority ("The Authority") that wields the ultimate power. The “scheme operator” is the finance provider itself. The ombudsman is the investigator who must be independent of the scheme operator.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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Re: Rejection finally complete

Post by Barnsh » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:21 am

NoDiscoSport wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:06 am
NoDiscoSport wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:29 am
That's because this episode resulted in the waste of the scheme operator's valuable time and resources. They aren't like the motor ombudsman. This is a legal entity established by an Act of Parliament under the Laws of England and Wales. They have considerable powers which at least match those of lower courts. They don't take kindly to having to list cases for a hearing that then becomes unnecessary because the respondent (clearly engaged in a game of "who-blinks-first-loses" with the complainant) conceded defeat at the last minute because they knew that a "voluntary jurisdiction" under s.227 of the Act wouldn't leave a written record. One hopes that the scheme operator has taken note for the future, so that the next time a defendant tries the same trick it will be picked up and dealt with firmly.
Correction: It's the Financial Services Authority ("The Authority") that wields the ultimate power. The “scheme operator” is the finance provider itself. The ombudsman is the investigator who must be independent of the scheme operator.


You might want to link this thread to the D5 and Evoque Forum ??
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


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