Service Plan

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Barnsh
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Re: Service Plan

Post by Barnsh » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:37 pm

hotfrog wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:12 pm
I have read this thread with a great deal of interest.

Surely if the car gets itself into a situation whereby JLR say that it should not be driven due to the condition of the engine oil then it is prima facie a warranty issue for JLR to fix. The car was not designed to leak fuel into the engine oil so it is a defect. If it regenerates the DPF at say 70mph then presumably the pistons / cylinders are lubricated almost entirely by fuel for the duration of the regen cycle, say for 10 minutes. No engine designer would build that feature, so is it just for expedience? Maybe someone with knowledge of the cars inner workings could comment on this. It all sounds like an engineering time bomb.

Supposing a gasket failure allowed water into the oil, is the situation really any different? Today, I smelt the engine through the oil filler and there was a distinct paraffin type of odour. My car has done 4150 miles from new and is showing that it will need an oil service in another 9650 miles. My usage includes some shopping but about 250 miles of A road / Motorway on each tankful. I have only once been aware of a DPF regeneration cycle since new but I am sure there must have been others.

I had a Ford S-Max and a SEAT Alhambra before the DS and experienced no DPF issues with either car. I followed their respective forums during my ownership. Although VW / SEAT have had a hard time over environmental issues I can only say that it ran perfectly during my ownership and in particular started on the coldest days cleanly with no smoke or paraffin smell as was common withe Ford when very very cold.
The issue is injecting diesil into the cylinders on the exhaust stroke, prior to this diesil was injected directly to the DPF
It is cheaper and more efficient to inject into the cylinder.
It's also efficient to return exhaust gas back to the engine (EGR) instead of the engine sucking in clean air , but at the detriment of chucking dirty air in too. EGR also feeds the turbo.

Down side is more oil into the sump, the old way on eu4/5 any unburnt fuel went to the sump but not through the cylinders.
My old EU 5 Volvo D5 put diesel in the sump but not in the scale seen on the ingenium plus I never had high Fe either on oil tests. Never had bad smells either.
I think JLR have a huge problem thus no questions are being answered on the forum.
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Chippy
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Re: Service Plan

Post by Chippy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:27 am

simon wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:39 pm
It can't be more illogical than a LR interface surely ?
I suppose it could be but not having used it I can't really say.
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Plumpton
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Re: Service Plan

Post by Plumpton » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:05 pm

The car is in for investigation today, an interim update call confirms that oil dilution at 2100 miles is 2% and they are, at my request, taking a sample for my own analysis. They reiterated that oil change could only be done based on JLR's 6-7% criteria. Not sure if they will have reset software etc but will check when I collect it later today. The drain hole issue in the tailgate has been sorted, but they are still looking into the fumes (regen type) I'm experiencing in the car intermittently on all journeys (no, not just when I'm stationary or with windows open). Fingers crossed! Oh, and I took the opportunity to question the toolkit contents for a seven seater with compressor kit i.e. should it have a bumper removal tool AKA screwdriver, the short answer was that they did not know but would check it out.
Gone! DS SE Tech 180 Auto June MY17, Yulong White, roof rails, det tow bar, service pack :)

VeryDiscoSport
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Re: Service Plan

Post by VeryDiscoSport » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:29 pm

Plumpton wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:05 pm
The car is in for investigation today, an interim update call confirms that oil dilution at 2100 miles is 2% and they are, at my request, taking a sample for my own analysis. They reiterated that oil change could only be done based on JLR's 6-7% criteria. Not sure if they will have reset software etc but will check when I collect it later today. The drain hole issue in the tailgate has been sorted, but they are still looking into the fumes (regen type) I'm experiencing in the car intermittently on all journeys (no, not just when I'm stationary or with windows open). Fingers crossed! Oh, and I took the opportunity to question the toolkit contents for a seven seater with compressor kit i.e. should it have a bumper removal tool AKA screwdriver, the short answer was that they did not know but would check it out.

Regarding the "oil change not before 6% dilution" part of the above. The dealer is merely following the instructions in SCN JLRP00100 because they have no mandate to call down warranty/goodwill payments from JLR other than when the SIM has triggered at 6.1% diesel dilution. But this campaign was never intended to fully protect the engine against wear from poor lubrication nor to keep it in the pristine condition that it was in when it left the factory. It was a stop-gap measure urgently promulgated to the network in an attempt to prevent "continued vehicle use with high diesel dilution" from triggering "engine failure" on a massive scale. Their words.

I know from personal experience that if you submit to Jaguar Land Rover an independent, professional report stating categorically that the oil needs changing immediately because i) it has an excessive amount of bio-diesel mixed in with it, ii) high Iron (or other wear metal) traces are present or iii) the oil has become so thin that it has dropped out of the oil grade specified by the vehicle manufacturer, then they will pay for the oil to be changed promptly at a dealer of your choice. They daren't do otherwise.
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simon
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Re: Service Plan

Post by simon » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:34 pm

21000 miles is a service. Surely oil is changed during a service like on any other engine ?

Why wouldn't they change this and the filter. It's listed in the service schedule isn't it ?
There are far better forums to be welcomed at than this one that locks threads because certain members can’t take a bit of criticism :roll:

VeryDiscoSport
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Re: Service Plan

Post by VeryDiscoSport » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:41 pm

simon wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:34 pm
21000 miles is a service. Surely oil is changed during a service like on any other engine ?

Why wouldn't they change this and the filter. It's listed in the service schedule isn't it ?

I think it was implied that they were only talking about the interim oil changes.
2017 DS L-550 2.0 SE Tech 150 6 SPD (Rejected per CRA 2015) :(
2008 RAV4 XA30 2.2D XTR 4WD :)

PedroT
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Re: Service Plan

Post by PedroT » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:08 pm

Oil and filter will be changed at normal service interval.
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Plumpton
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Re: Service Plan

Post by Plumpton » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:41 pm

As mentioned above, my car has covered only 2100 miles, not 21000, so not impressed at 2% already (but this figure, mentioned in previous posts, is a derived/calculated figure and accuracy is questionable). The tech guy was telling me that they have seen a big increase in cars requiring the 'interim' oil change, and you are quite correct VDS, their hands are tied to a degree as they need to put all requests for oil dilution issues directly to JLR for authorisation of 'goodwill' oil changes. So to cut a long story short I have 2 options, wait for the service to be triggered around 6000 to 7000 miles which the tech said was likely, but I'm not keen on sticking my head in the sand and waiting that long, or get it tested now and at around 4000 miles by Millers Oils. I did receive a sample of my oil today as requested , I just need to get that sent first to give me a baseline position.
Gone! DS SE Tech 180 Auto June MY17, Yulong White, roof rails, det tow bar, service pack :)

simon
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Re: Service Plan

Post by simon » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:49 pm

Ah. Sorry. Totally misread the mileage as 21000 :oops:
There are far better forums to be welcomed at than this one that locks threads because certain members can’t take a bit of criticism :roll:

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peejayk
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Re: Service Plan

Post by peejayk » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:02 pm

It's interesting that it's been confirmed by Amelia on Barnsh's DPF topic that to complete an active regeneration you basically need to be driving pretty much steady at least 50mph for at least 20 mins for it to complete which equates to roughly 16 miles minimum. I don't know about anyone else but other than on a Sunday, I'd probably have to drive 20-30 miles to reach a stretch of road that would even allow me to do that! This would make a mockery of the "fuel savings" of S/S system which, on my car, is rarely kicking in these days simply because my daily commute is an urban 7 mile trip each way where the longest I'll hit 50mph for is about 30 seconds on a stretch of dual carriageway.

As it stands my car is now on 3903 miles and suggesting a service in 5350 miles, a figure which is decreasing at a higher rate than the mileage is going up!

I dread to think what anyone living in a city like London would have to do (distance-wise) to achieve an active regen as I imagine you'd struggle to hit 16 miles @ 50mph anywhere inside (or even on in many cases) the M25!
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