PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

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pcheaven
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PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by pcheaven » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:38 am

Apparently even when the phev battery is flat there is electric power still available to remain 4wd

From auto express

Carey said – but the PHEV tech will ensure that electric power is available for the back axle, even when the charge level is at zero per cent. “It has to do that, because it needs to have the capacity to be four-wheel drive at any time,” Carey explained.

How?

Is it generated by the ice?
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Jonnyvtec
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by Jonnyvtec » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:59 am

From the motor on the engine, sends electricity down the cables to the motor in the rear. Just powered by fuel rather than stored grid power.

seatsl
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by seatsl » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:26 pm

The 20MY documentation released on the Evoque forum describes a BISG attached to the ICE, similar to the mild hybrid. Does the 21MY have a HV generator at the front? Without one the car would revert to 2 wheel drive. But, if it does have one, that would make it a multi-mode hybrid capable of self-charging (like Toyota) and series hybrid operation (like Honda) in addition to parallel hybrid. The schematic go-cart videos don't give this impression.
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Barnsh
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by Barnsh » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:49 pm

Yes showing the engine , batteries, motor and wheels but missing out the prop shaft makes an interesting proposition.
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pcheaven
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by pcheaven » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:53 pm

Jonnyvtec wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:59 am
From the motor on the engine, sends electricity down the cables to the motor in the rear. Just powered by fuel rather than stored grid power.

I didn't think the DS had a HV generator as its is a 'basic' PHEV and not a self charging HEV
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pcheaven
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by pcheaven » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:09 pm

ok, sorted, interesting.

Seems the ICE will generate enough electricity to maintain AWD when the battery is flat - see the below snapshot from some LR literature I finally found.

very cool.

from here (https://media.landrover.com/en-gb/news/ ... e-34-miles)

DD322CCA-A4A5-4864-B4A9-A9228C7A4D9B.jpeg

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seatsl
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by seatsl » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:32 am

pcheaven wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:09 pm
ok, sorted, interesting.

Seems the ICE will generate enough electricity to maintain AWD when the battery is flat - see the below snapshot from some LR literature I finally found.

very cool.
That was a good read. Question: how much of the 200 HP can be diverted to the rear wheels? If you knew you were going on a 20 mile green lane trip up some hilly terrain, you would presumably save the battery for when you got to the start line so you still had 300 HP on tap. Long drives in ice and snow could be an issue if beyond battery range. More information needed, i.e. a real car to play with.
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Barnsh
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by Barnsh » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:04 am

seatsl wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:32 am
pcheaven wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:09 pm
ok, sorted, interesting.

Seems the ICE will generate enough electricity to maintain AWD when the battery is flat - see the below snapshot from some LR literature I finally found.

very cool.
That was a good read. Question: how much of the 200 HP can be diverted to the rear wheels? If you knew you were going on a 20 mile green lane trip up some hilly terrain, you would presumably save the battery for when you got to the start line so you still had 300 HP on tap. Long drives in ice and snow could be an issue if beyond battery range. More information needed, i.e. a real car to play with.
So you effectively have a 1500. 3 pot engine, losing power through conversion (remember every conversion of power consumes power in itself) to run your AWD?
Fuel consumption is really poor and lack of power is a concern?
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roadster
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by roadster » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:39 am

It is very unlikely that the high voltage battery is ever actually allowed to go flat. This would not be good for it. It is much more likely that the car will go no further in EV mode once a certain threshold of battery capacity is reached and the engine will start at that point. The only difference between this and other makes ( which shall be nameless ) is that the motor-generator ( or starter generator?) is described as "belt-integrated" because it is external to the main engine block rather than being contained internally within the transmission design.
In either case it is questionable how much power could be continuously delivered through the wheels in a truly non-stop artificial scenario where the accelerator pedal never leaves the floor. It would be an interesting exercise for the crazies at Top Gear (new or old) to run a few different hybrids on the MIRA banked track to test this out, although I expect tyre issues might arise. Presumably the vehicles would slow down after the depleted traction battery could not provide further energy but it would seem that in the DS scenario there may be no way of delivering power to the rear wheels at high speed in any case.
The plug-in aspect is largely academic since it merely requires a bigger battery capacity and external charging input in addition to the motor-generator which provides the charge when on the road in both cases.

These are complicated designs and its only after testing in the real world that we will know how well they have been implemented from an owners perspective.
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Andy131
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Re: PHEV 4wd when battery is flat - how ?

Post by Andy131 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:48 am

I am soooo glad I went for the non-electric option. There is a recipe for reliability of KISS = Keep it Simple Stupid and this looks like a lot of things to go badly wrong, and after the warranty expires expensively wrong at dealership rates - most independents will take years to get up to speed with the requirement of high voltage traction systems.
For the majority of users they need lots of power to get up to speed, then a lot less to maintain the speed at legal limits, so battery boost up to speed then a poxy 3 pot engine to keep you moving is probably OK. How about dragging a caravan through the Pyrenees or down to Cornwall, not going to work. Or a horse box any distance - heavy & aerodynamic as a parachute.
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