Delays in deliveries - October 2020

All Discovery Sport related discussions
Barnsh
Posts: 7141
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by Barnsh » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:11 pm

sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:08 pm
Barnsh wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:46 am
sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:16 am


The UK's Vehicle Certification Agency lists the Discovery Sport, 20MY 1.5 i3 Petrol 300PS AWD Auto CO2 emissions (g/km) (weighted) as 36 and 44 (depending on the spec). This is the type approval for the car in the UK and hence the official CO2 figures.

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certificati ... -fuel.aspx
And if as a customer you buy one , you just get an estimate on your quote .
It’s not a trivial thing as you can see from the order mentioned above by a prospective customer , the company need actual figures. Yes you can point them to DVLA , but in France they have estimate too.

Can’t JLR simply update there web site , to end this anomaly ?

I have built a car on the configurator and selected an engine. Displayed are the estimated figures. If I click the link to "View WLTP Figures" I get the PDF that I keep referring back to. In this PDF there is a breakdown of all the WLTP figures. I cannot see any caveat of "estimate". Please read this and tell me where it says the figures are estimated.

https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land ... 798845.pdf
The caveat says WLTP View. Clearly it applies to view , else why say this. It’s in the box of text next to where you pick the engine as per my image. Read subscript on that page.

Anyway we’ve progressed a bit further , it shows also on the French quote on the last page .
A quote forms part of a legal contract .

I think your missing the elephant in the room , if the correct figures are available they should be there for all to see, and simply removing the left over estimate paragraph would sort this , and this thread would not have existed in its current form.
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:

seatsl
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by seatsl » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:32 pm

sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:02 pm
I have built a car on the configurator and selected an engine. Displayed are the estimated figures. If I click the link to "View WLTP Figures" I get the PDF that I keep referring back to. In this PDF there is a breakdown of all the WLTP figures. I cannot see any caveat of "estimate". Please read this and tell me where it says the figures are estimated.

https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land ... 798845.pdf

This is sending people round in circles. The link suggested goes to carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk but that site says the following:

"Because of the nature of testing procedures, the type approval emissions figures should be treated with caution and specifically should not be used to rank a number of vehicles for which similar figures are quoted. Similarly, when looking to find out the Euro Standard for a vehicle already in service, we strongly recommend that you contact the manufacturer."

And actually it's a waste of anyone's time going to that government web-site because - wait for it - there is no data for 21MY. It only lists last years 20MY model which, if one of your previous posts is accurate, is NOT the PHEV+MHEV we are all interested in, but an out-of-date MHEV.

The emissions data obviously isn't finalised so why do you keep saying that it is? And when is JLR going to give me a proper brochure with the final figures so I can decide whether to hang on. Now I'm wondering what else they are holding back.
Volvo XC60 B5 (Petrol) AWD R-Design 2.0 5dr
Gone - Ford Kuga 2.0 TDCi Zetec AWD

sandbox
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by sandbox » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:49 pm

As I previously posted, it does list the 1.5L P300 PHEV:

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certificati ... -fuel.aspx

Search for Land Rover and you will see it there.

Screenshot 2020-10-06 at 12.47.50.png

The original question was if the delay is due to the lack of WLTP figures. It does not appear to be as there are official WLTP figures and they are used to provide the UK type approval for the Discovery Sport and Evoque PHEVs.

The technical specifications with the official WLTP figures are here (I see no estimate caveats):

https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land ... 798845.pdf
2016 D180 Auto

Barnsh
Posts: 7141
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by Barnsh » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:55 pm

sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:49 pm
As I previously posted, it does list the 1.5L P300 PHEV:

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certificati ... -fuel.aspx

Search for Land Rover and you will see it there.

Screenshot 2020-10-06 at 12.47.50.png

The original question was if the delay is due to the lack of WLTP figures. It does not appear to be as there are official WLTP figures and they are used to provide the UK type approval for the Discovery Sport and Evoque PHEVs.

The technical specifications with the official WLTP figures are here (no estimate caveat):

https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land ... 798845.pdf
Where is the 21MY, that’s what people are buying.
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:

Barnsh
Posts: 7141
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by Barnsh » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:57 pm

seatsl wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:32 pm
sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:02 pm
I have built a car on the configurator and selected an engine. Displayed are the estimated figures. If I click the link to "View WLTP Figures" I get the PDF that I keep referring back to. In this PDF there is a breakdown of all the WLTP figures. I cannot see any caveat of "estimate". Please read this and tell me where it says the figures are estimated.

https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land ... 798845.pdf

This is sending people round in circles. The link suggested goes to carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk but that site says the following:

"Because of the nature of testing procedures, the type approval emissions figures should be treated with caution and specifically should not be used to rank a number of vehicles for which similar figures are quoted. Similarly, when looking to find out the Euro Standard for a vehicle already in service, we strongly recommend that you contact the manufacturer."

And actually it's a waste of anyone's time going to that government web-site because - wait for it - there is no data for 21MY. It only lists last years 20MY model which, if one of your previous posts is accurate, is NOT the PHEV+MHEV we are all interested in, but an out-of-date MHEV.

The emissions data obviously isn't finalised so why do you keep saying that it is? And when is JLR going to give me a proper brochure with the final figures so I can decide whether to hang on. Now I'm wondering what else they are holding back.
Agree it is a mess
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:

sandbox
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by sandbox » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:28 pm

Barnsh wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:55 pm
sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:49 pm
As I previously posted, it does list the 1.5L P300 PHEV:

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certificati ... -fuel.aspx

Search for Land Rover and you will see it there.

Screenshot 2020-10-06 at 12.47.50.png

The original question was if the delay is due to the lack of WLTP figures. It does not appear to be as there are official WLTP figures and they are used to provide the UK type approval for the Discovery Sport and Evoque PHEVs.

The technical specifications with the official WLTP figures are here (no estimate caveat):

https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land ... 798845.pdf
Where is the 21MY, that’s what people are buying.
The PHEV first appeared as MY20 and as I understand it for Land Rover MY21 starts in October.
2016 D180 Auto

seatsl
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by seatsl » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:30 pm

sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:49 pm
As I previously posted, it does list the 1.5L P300 PHEV:

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certificati ... -fuel.aspx
Search for Land Rover and you will see it there.

I want to buy the 21MY year model, not 20MY.
sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:49 pm
The technical specifications with the official WLTP figures are here (no estimate caveat):

https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land ... 798845.pdf

I just used the configurator and my "personal brochure" defo contains the following statement:
"The figures provided are manufacturer's estimates and will be replaced with the official EU test figures as soon as they are available."

If I was silly enough to order a DS PHEV today, in civil law it would be this personalised brochure (oh look - it even has my name on it!) that would form part of the contract of sale, not some generic pdf brochure substitute, or an out of date government table. This is not a trivial point. JLR has a chequered history of selling cars then changing the brochures later after people began to realise that their car had been misrepresented. The EU vehicle inspectors have extended powers to monitor the emissions tests these days, so everything that goes into print has to be closely scrutinised by the lawyers. This is very likely why JLR is being ultra-cautious about what it releases for public consumption.

I'll think I'll pass for now, thanks all the same.
Last edited by seatsl on Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Volvo XC60 B5 (Petrol) AWD R-Design 2.0 5dr
Gone - Ford Kuga 2.0 TDCi Zetec AWD

seatsl
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by seatsl » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:37 pm

sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:28 pm
The PHEV first appeared as MY20 and as I understand it for Land Rover MY21 starts in October.

I take it from that statement that you are now liaising with the company. Could you please ask them if any of the DS PHEV's that "appeared" as 20MY were actually sold to end users?
Volvo XC60 B5 (Petrol) AWD R-Design 2.0 5dr
Gone - Ford Kuga 2.0 TDCi Zetec AWD

sandbox
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by sandbox » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:46 pm

Just below the "Personalised Brochure" link is "View WLTP Figures". Click that and you will get a PDF with official WLTP figures (no estimate caveat):

https://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land ... 798845.pdf


The brochure you created is simply a brochure and not a contract. If you had paid your deposit, that would form a contract.
2016 D180 Auto

sandbox
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Re: Delays in deliveries - October 2020

Post by sandbox » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:47 pm

seatsl wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:37 pm
sandbox wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:28 pm
The PHEV first appeared as MY20 and as I understand it for Land Rover MY21 starts in October.

I take it from that statement that you are now liaising with the company. Could you please ask them if any of the DS PHEV's that "appeared" as 20MY were actually sold to end users?
No. What I mean by that is that the PHEV was first available to order as MY20 and October usually marks the start of MY21.
2016 D180 Auto

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