what % dilution is acceptable

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Quentyn
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what % dilution is acceptable

Post by Quentyn » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:39 pm

the car went in today for its 8k "service now required" service

imagine my surprise to be told that my oil is only 9.8% diluted and then they told me that they only change the oil FoC at 12% diluted... I pointed out that this will be in Feb at the current rate ( assuming a linear rate of dilution) to which they said that it very well may be. Essentially all they did today when it went in ( apart from cleaning it) was tighten up the exhaust

what % oil dilution is acceptable ? the doc i had said >6% and they replace but the garage seems to believe that its >12%

Am i safe to leave the car till 12% ?

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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by Dashnine » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:27 pm

LR themselves recently changed the algorithm that calculates and flags up ‘Service Required’ from 6% dilution to 10% (the N289 update I think), so I guess that’s the official answer. The real answer is ‘how long is a piece of string?’, as no one knows the impact at varying percentages.
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Quentyn
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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by Quentyn » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:46 pm

so it will ping once it goes >10%
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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by Dashnine » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:17 pm

Quentyn wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:46 pm
so it will ping once it goes >10%
Well, it’s pinged already if it’s told you it needed a service, maybe it was the 6% calculation and they’ve had it analysed it at 9.8%. If the diagnostics said 9.8% it’s gained 3.8% pretty quickly.

I don’t see how if the car pinged at all, how they can deny an oil change.
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Quentyn
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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by Quentyn » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:21 pm

what they said was that the car didnt need an oil change as the dilution was only 9.8% - their policy is not to change before 12%

they have now reset the senor
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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by Rediscovery » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Quentyn wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:39 pm
the car went in today for its 8k "service now required" service

imagine my surprise to be told that my oil is only 9.8% diluted and then they told me that they only change the oil FoC at 12% diluted...

Am i safe to leave the car till 12% ?
Follow your wife's advice and "get rid of it". Engines like these weren't designed to be operated with massively elevated levels of solvent contamination. If you sent a sample to Millers Oils they would tell you that the oil needs changing urgently due to reduced viscosity, high diesel dilution and dangerous levels of iron and other wear metals. It's sheer madness to ignore sage engineering advice built up over decades. Get the oil sample analysed, stick the report in front of the dealer and tell them that you demand a free oil change. See what happens.

The following statements come from Machinery Lubrication magazine:

* Severe fuel dilution is an excess of two percent.

* Diesel fuel dilution in cold operating conditions causes waxing. During start-up, this can result in low oil pressure and oil starvation conditions. (In the Ingenium engine, this will increase wear in lubricant-sensitive area like the balance shaft needle roller bearings which depend on atomised oil from the piston cooler jets.)

* Diesel fuel carries unsaturated aromatic molecules into the engine oil which promote oxidation. This can result in a premature loss of base number (loss of corrosion protection) and oxidative thickening of the motor oil, causing deposits and starvation.

* Fuel dilution drops the viscosity of the standard 0W-30 oil to 0W-20 or lower. This collapses critical oil film thicknesses, resulting in premature combustion zone wear (piston, rings and liner) and crankcase bearing wear. [That's why DS oil samples always contain high iron]

* Fuel dilution causes wash-down of oil on cylinder liners which accelerates ring, piston and cylinder wear [iron again]. It also causes high blow-by conditions and increased oil consumption (reverse blow-by).

* Severe fuel dilution dilutes the concentration of oil additives and impairs their effectiveness.

* Fuel dilution by biodiesel (5% in UK diesel) disturbs oxidation stability, causes filter plugging issues, promotes deposit formation and increases volatility.

* According to Castrol, JLR's oil partner: "Oil dilution above 2% fuel dilution is excessive and results in decreased viscosity, oil degradation, loss of dispersancy, loss of oxidation stability which affects the ability of the oil to lubricate properly – especially in the long term.

None of this means that your engine is going to blow up, it's just that the chances of this happening are higher and the engine's useful life is going to be shorter. If it does happen, it's not funny. https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9797
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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by Dashnine » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:37 pm

Quentyn wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:21 pm
what they said was that the car didnt need an oil change as the dilution was only 9.8% - their policy is not to change before 12%

they have now reset the senor
You need to separate between LR and the dealer, they are not the same thing. LR set the car to request oil change at 6%, and then with the update to 10%, the dealer is fobbing you off for some reason, not sure why.
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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by mjj160 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:38 am

I spent my whole working life in the Merchant Navy, the last 26 years as Chief Engineer, onboard ship I would send in to a laboratory a sample of all the generator and main engine oils, if the results came back with a fuel dilution of 2.5% or above, then the oil was changed, which can be expensive when a generator has 650 litres in its sump, and a main engine over 2000 litres

I also have a discovery sport, and change the oil every 5 thousand miles, so hopefully will not get the high percentage readings, I sent in a sample to Millers laboratory when the oil had 5 thousand miles on it and it came back with a reading of 2%
Not that expensive to do an oil change as I use Petronas Syntium 7000E and a genuine filter, cost about £60 and takes about 30 minutes to do.
I would definitely not let the percentage of dilution get to the levels that JLR seem to think is acceptable, not if you want to keep the car for a few extra years.
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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by roadster » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:52 am

Also bear in mind that the garage is highly unlikely to have determined the dilution by having an oil sample analyzed. They have just used the figure reported by the diagnostics which is an estimate based on pattern of usage and frequency of regeneration cycles.
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Re: what % dilution is acceptable

Post by Kruddler » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:21 am

mjj160 wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:38 am
I spent my whole working life in the Merchant Navy, the last 26 years as Chief Engineer, onboard ship I would send in to a laboratory a sample of all the generator and main engine oils, if the results came back with a fuel dilution of 2.5% or above, then the oil was changed, which can be expensive when a generator has 650 litres in its sump, and a main engine over 2000 litres

I also have a discovery sport, and change the oil every 5 thousand miles, so hopefully will not get the high percentage readings, I sent in a sample to Millers laboratory when the oil had 5 thousand miles on it and it came back with a reading of 2%
Not that expensive to do an oil change as I use Petronas Syntium 7000E and a genuine filter, cost about £60 and takes about 30 minutes to do.
I would definitely not let the percentage of dilution get to the levels that JLR seem to think is acceptable, not if you want to keep the car for a few extra years.
Mike

Likewise, I do exactly the same. I bought the car from new knowing what I was getting into regarding Oil dilution. I know that I shouldn't have to but I was prepared to do the Oil changes every 6k in order to minimise the dilution - in so much as its possible to do so. DIY changes are really easy, there's a good instructional video on this site, the only change I made was to buy an Oil Filter cap wrench attachment to avoid potentially burning my hands.

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