Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

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Dashnine
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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by Dashnine » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:46 pm

Past master wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:12 pm
I would ask the dealer how many oil changes the car has had - interim oil changes won't be on OSH but they should have a record somewhere. If it's less than every 12000 miles walk away. I assume they are desperate to sell you the car - my dealer is increasingly frantic in their attempts to sell new cars ad ex-demos - so I would try to get them to agree to free oil changes if required between services, at least for the two year warranty period. I can't see a problem if the oil changes so far have been done as required. My car is three years old and 45000 miles and I've made the decision to keep it for at least another year as I like it so much. It's had two services and two interim oil changes. You might also want to check if the warranty they are offering includes DPF faults - I had to have mine changed at around 37000 miles - and make sure it includes LR Assist, as their technicians are great and they can get you instant dealer help if something does go wrong.
Don’t you mean ‘more than 12,000 miles’, the average being around 8,000 miles before an oil change is needed?

Mind you, with all this debate, speculation and off-putting he’ll never be back now, which is the result some appear to be looking for.
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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by Past master » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:52 pm

No, I meant less than - ie if it hasn't had an oil change at least every 12000 miles walk away. Mine has been doing 10-12000 between oil changes and adblue fills and seems happy so far (45000 miles).
Yes my original does look a bit ambiguous, sorry.
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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by TeddyBear » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:25 pm

Dashnine wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:46 pm
Mind you, with all this debate, speculation and off-putting he’ll never be back now, which is the result some appear to be looking for.
Speaking as someone who originally joined the forum looking for the same type of information I don't see much "speculation" here. I think what's been said is all pretty factual based on what I found out for myself. If the truth about the diesels puts people off buying one that's just hard luck for JLR. But probably nothing less than they deserve.


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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by Dashnine » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:31 pm

TeddyBear wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:25 pm
Dashnine wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:46 pm
Mind you, with all this debate, speculation and off-putting he’ll never be back now, which is the result some appear to be looking for.
Speaking as someone who originally joined the forum looking for the same type of information I don't see much "speculation" here. I think what's been said is all pretty factual based on what I found out for myself. If the truth about the diesels puts people off buying one that's just hard luck for JLR. But probably nothing less than they deserve.
Until you get a statement from JLR confirming everything, then it is just joining the dots, or speculation. I’m in agreement with most of it, the design cock up etc., but I find the ECU theory a bit far fetched and full of conspiracy theory. Time may tell otherwise, in which case I’ll eat my SCRF.

As long as you accept annual or more frequent (depending on your mileage) oil changes as per most other cars, the DS diesel is a great car. The history of a used car is an issue but given oil changes will be LR dealer based, that should be traceable.

If my annual mileage hadn’t dropped and amid fears for diesel in the future I’d have bought another, instead I chose petrol (and what a car that is - worth every penny of the few extra pounds of fuel but that’s another story).
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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by Zygote » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:30 pm

I’m a few weeks in to my MY16 HSE Lux 180 and I flippin’ love it! Lovely to drive and looks great. I haven’t experienced the issues some have reported about the auto box being a bit all-or-nothing (although not an issue for you if you’re looking at the manual), no rattles at all, in fact it was so well presented by the dealer when I picked it up I have to keep reminding myself it’s new to me, not new. I have a 30 mile commute on open roads so don’t expect the DPF regent issue that’s been discussed to be a major factor, and although I’m still filling up once per week, it’s a smaller tank so I’m quids in as far as fuel economy is concerned.

Maybe I got a good one, it does seem to have been well looked after by its first owner, interior and exterior is immaculate, but I’d definitely recommend it, especially if it’s approved used as you get 2 years warranty.

Only thing I’d say is to consider the auto. I’ve just spent 7 years with a manual Freelander 2 and while the car itself was practically faultless, the auto box definitely suits this kind of car much more than the manual.


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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by Teefin » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:49 am

Dont do it, at this time most second hand cars will quite probably have been traded in by disgruntled customers due to issues.

I am in the process of changing and finally enough going back to Volvo.

Forums are full of complaints in general but TBH my Freelander 2 was 100% better built than my DS that replaced it.

Really do some serious reading before possibly making an expensive mistake as I did.

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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by Ian_S » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:39 am

As someone who bought a 2016 diesel DS second hand (good luck finding a petrol one of that age!) it appears that the main issue is whether or not your journey type will suit the DS. Unfortunately there's no guaranteed answer to that one. If it is mainly short journeys it's probably a no, and I suspect if you are someone who like to eek every last mpg out of a car, you may also not be well suited.

I've been lucky, and got to around 13,500 miles for the last oil change where dilution hit the 6% mark.

If you are buying from a dealer then you get 2 years warranty, and (unfortunately) if the dealer is any good they will have updated the powertrain control software to the latest version (N273) which now raises the oil dilution limit from 6.1% to 10%. Not a fan of that as I'd rather know when 6% was up, even if it was after 6000 miles. IMO it makes it much harder to recommend when to change the oil, and you won't know what the mileage is to get to 6% as that varies wildly by owner. Certainly plan to get it done at least once a year, and when you do get it changed, make sure you get the dilution figure so you can gauge if you may need it changed more often. I think the attitude to oil changes between a fleet/PCP holder in the first 3 years and a private second hand owner is very different, and the 10% threshold is aimed squarely at the former.

Apart from that, it's a great car IMO. A few small rattles, but for me, LR dealers have been good and I have no real complaints. The packaging of the car and it's practicality is second to none. It's also surprisingly enjoyable to drive for an SUV. Unlike others, I like the infotainment system, it's not over complicated and does the main things I need without any more issues than other cars I've had or driven.

If it wasn't for the oil dilution it would be an easy recommend.

If you do take the plunge, with an LR dealer, (which I would strongly recommend) then as part of their used scheme, there is a 30 day 1000 mile exchange policy.

Use this!!!

If during that period you get any kind of DPF warning come on you need to find petrol version. Also, be upfront with the dealer and ask them to tell you the oil dilution at the point of pickup. (Even if it has just been changed). Then before your 30 day period is up, get another reading to see if the increase looks ok. You'd be looking for around a 0.5% increase per month to get through say 1000 miles per month and one oil change per year. IF all that stacks up, then you should be fine. Tell the dealer you really want a DS but don't want to be saddled with something that isn't suitable and I don't really see what they have to lose either. If they're not willing to accommodate you, find one that will :)
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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by TeddyBear » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:43 am

Ian_S wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:39 am
As someone who bought a 2016 diesel DS second hand (good luck finding a petrol one of that age!) it appears that the main issue is whether or not your journey type will suit the DS. Unfortunately there's no guaranteed answer to that one. If it is mainly short journeys it's probably a no, and I suspect if you are someone who like to eek every last mpg out of a car, you may also not be well suited.

I've been lucky, and got to around 13,500 miles for the last oil change where dilution hit the 6% mark.
I always read your posts with interest; it seems that you thought quite carefully about the known problems (including oil dilution, I presume) before buying one, only to be rewarded with a service required light after 4,000 miles. Since then, a few more problems have appeared with the DS in general and these have received regular coverage on the forum; plus it's pretty certain since the issuing of N298 that the exhaust won't now be changed, JLR having decided instead to squeeze out a few more miles between services by allowing oil dilution to rise to 10%. I just wondered: if you were weighing the options today, would your decision be the same? I ask this having just gone through the process and decided, despite the car's good points, that the DS now represents a fairly risky investment for someone intending to keep their next car for 8-10 years..


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Re: Looking to buy 2016 DS - Crazy??

Post by Ian_S » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:04 am

TeddyBear wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:43 am
I always read your posts with interest; it seems that you thought quite carefully about the known problems (including oil dilution, I presume) before buying one, only to be rewarded with a service required light after 4,000 miles. Since then, a few more problems have appeared with the DS in general and these have received regular coverage on the forum; plus it's pretty certain since the issuing of N298 that the exhaust won't now be changed, JLR having decided instead to squeeze out a few more miles between services by allowing oil dilution to rise to 10%. I just wondered: if you were weighing the options today, would your decision be the same? I ask this having just gone through the process and decided, despite the car's good points, that the DS now represents a fairly risky investment for someone intending to keep their next car for 8-10 years..
Not quite sure what you mean about 4000 miles?

I'll be honest, I found out about the oil dilution issue after I decided to get the DS. Like most, I would never even have thought it would be a problem, hence my statement that I was lucky getting 13,500 miles on a charge of oil.

Knowing what I know now, I'm not sure what I'd have done. Second hand petrol DS's are currently rare, and I really didn't fancy other brands offerings. There could be good deals on new ones as LR look to move volume, and the DS is due for a refresh later this year.

I also think it's fair to suggest that no Euro 6 diesel will make a sound long term investment. The emissions architectures are working very hard, probably harder than intended to be actually compliant, and I think oil dilution or not, they will become very expensive to repair much earlier than previous generations of diesel cars as a result.

Short to medium term I think the answer will be a petrol hybrid of some description as we are many years away from full EV's having sufficient charging infrastructure in place to make them a worry free purchase for most people.

I don't regret my purchase yet, but there has been an element of luck to it.
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