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Newbie with Landmark on order

8K views 21 replies 11 participants last post by  PhilMabbots17 
#1 ·
Hi All

Ordered my new 180ps DS Landmark and waiting delivery with a new registration in March 2019

Bit apprehensive with a lot of the reliability comments on here. Bought the vehicle to tow my caravan having just sold a Shogun which I considered a disappointment. Looking forward to towing with a DS as all the comments appear really positive. :D I would consider myself a very competent DIY mechanic and so are looking forward to some of the discussions on this forum.

Regards
Richy
 
#2 ·
Had my Lamdmark a few weeks now and I love it, superb drive and so refined.
Interested to know what towbar you are going for? I got the Landrover detachable which cost a fortune and involves replacing the bottom middle section of the rear bumper. If you are having this towbar ask them to put the electric socket bracket on the reverse way round....I've just has this done and means that the socket does not protrude out from the rear bumper and no longer liable to damage, and it looks much better as well.
 
#3 ·
Newbie here too place order yesterday as per spec in my signature. Looking forward to lots of positive comments and to hear from anyone who knows how I can get my hands on the dynamic black gloss rear reg plinth!
 
#4 ·
Hi Yes

I'm looking at the JLR towbar, they appear lighter than other manufacturers and I think replace the metal bumper rails behind the plastic bumper, you also get the added benefit of keeping the towing eye. but boy are they expensive. I was going to have a go at fitting it myself, the electrics appear well thought out on a DS, towbar electrics just plug in. Thanks for the tip on the drop down electrics bracket

I have had the Yulong white, I think it looks stunning.

Richy
 
#5 ·
Richy,

If you are OK with the spanner's, then have a go at fitting it yourself. I have done about 9 Discovery Sport Towbars so far and they are extremely easy to do.

All towbars require the removal of the rear crash beam on DS.

As you say, the electrics are very well thought out. Simple plug and play and no programming required.

I paid £542 for the genuine LR fixed towbar and electrics.

If you have the underslung spare, the towbars do extend further out and do need the extended centre bumper cover.
 
#8 ·
Yes, I have noticed that the Land Rover detachable towbar doesn't include the rotary plug mounted device and bracket, looking through Ebay some appear to have this in the picture and others don't. So I need to get the kit which includes the mounting bracket and then the internal electrics as well. Can anyone recommend a supplier that has these ? Richy
 
#9 ·
I have absolutely no faith in the DS. I had two and there was always reliability problems. I ended up calling out LR assist aka the AA, threee weekends on the trot. You do despair, never known a LR model like it. That did it for me, I wasn't about to give them another chance and went up to the D5 and so far so good.

Buying a DS is akin to playing Russian Roulette. Personally, why take the chance?
 
#10 ·
Trouble is the D5 isn't immune either, great that you got rid of the oil dilution and are happy with yours but a friend of mine got the bullet on the first shot with their D5, rejected it with oil dilution and 16 other faults and ran into the same bullet of oil dilution again with a FFRR, both were V6 diesels.
 
#11 ·
D5 seems to be just the V6 as -9 says.
I'd make sure you read ( search for) threads for :

Oil dilution
Brake disk corrosion
DPF fault
Sluggish auto gear box
Requirements for Car play ...if you want it
Sat nav differences between 8 inch and 10 inch
Poor halogen headlights as standard on some models ( candles would be brighter)

If your happy having test driven it ( get one for a day) drive your normal route.
Then go in with eyes open, get the right spec and options.

Remember JLR will not add options not configured at manufacture and are not available as a dealer extra, tow bars etc) . Your stuck with your choice so get it right.
 
#12 ·
Guys I have had two v6 diesels one in an S Type and the other an XF, they are superb engines, oil dilution isn't a new issue it has been around ever since the government introduced the mandatory of DPF filters in car exhausts. The only difference now is the car tells you about it, surely a positive thing. I can remember when my mondeo required a service every 10k and that was before DPF's and using synthetic oil. Anyway sorry to bore you about towbars but can anyone recommend a good towbar electrics supplier with the rotary mounting. Looked online Devon 4x4 seem to have the product anyone bought one.
Richy
 
#13 ·
richy said:
Guys I have had two v6 diesels one in an S Type and the other an XF, they are superb engines, oil dilution isn't a new issue it has been around ever since the government introduced the mandatory of DPF filters in car exhausts. The only difference now is the car tells you about it, surely a positive thing. I can remember when my mondeo required a service every 10k and that was before DPF's and using synthetic oil. Anyway sorry to bore you about towbars but can anyone recommend a good towbar electrics supplier with the rotary mounting. Looked online Devon 4x4 seem to have the product anyone bought one.
Richy
Oil dilution is not new as you say, however the TDv6 is currently calling fir a service every 3000 to 5000 miles.
The vehicles with this defect and the reason for it are described in the JLR document JLRP 00100 which is on the forum if you care to search fir it.
This document distinctly rules out the XF due to "hardware and architectural differences," I'd suggest you read that as a starting point.
JLR haven't given away millions of gallons of oil for no reason.

https://www.docdroid.net/KUMbEu2/2017-07-jlrp00100-service-indicator-message-and-oil-dilution.pdf
 
#15 ·
richy said:
I think you may be exaggerating, I'm sure JLR havent given away millions of gallons of oil. Can we get back to towbar electrics.
Richy I'm not one to show people how to suck eggs but my ds has had 4 oil changes in 13 months and that is no exaggeration. I have covered 20k miles since I've had the car. If you're goi g for a ds try the petrol version as it doesn't suffer with oil dilution
 
#16 ·
richy said:
I think you may be exaggerating, I'm sure JLR havent given away millions of gallons of oil. Can we get back to towbar electrics.
Whilst the true figure may/may not run into millions, I can assure you there is no exaggeration in terms of the problem. This is a global issue, and a worldwide bulletin issued accordingly, which provides oil and filters on a goodwill basis. Just the members of this forum alone who have had the issue would put the figure into thousands of gallons, consider that globally, and not just with the DS as other Ingenium powered derivatives are also affected, and you will see the true scale of the problem. Eyes wide open, if you please.

I might also point out that your current V6 power plants are Ford (Euro 4/5) and not JLR's infamous AJ200 Ingenium; the engine itself is not the real issue - it's the position of the SCRF system that is the root cause of the problem, as has been discussed to death countlessly since MY2015.5

And finally....my Ford/PSA Euro 5 unit in my Freelander has never suffered with oil dilution either, principally because it doesn't have to actively regenerate all the time, as the exhaust and turbo layout allows soot to burn off the DPF through heat alone, whereas this particular engine does not have the capability to do so. As you will find out for yourself within a year of taking delivery of your new Landmark.
 
#17 ·
Dashnine said:
Trouble is the D5 isn't immune either, great that you got rid of the oil dilution and are happy with yours but a friend of mine got the bullet on the first shot with their D5, rejected it with oil dilution and 16 other faults and ran into the same bullet of oil dilution again with a FFRR, both were V6 diesels.
Thanks to forum members contributions ( and Landrovers JLRP 00100 we know pretty well which models are affected , this is useful to new purchasers.
I see the TDV6 is being dropped in favour of ingenium , I guess there won't be a resolution for those owners.
 
#18 ·
Every time someone makes a post in the forum to the effect that the AJ200D Discovery Sport is "no different" to other EU6 diesel cars in respect of post injection, active regeneration, diesel dilution or frequency of oil services, one or more of the following applies:

1. They are deliberately defending JLR as a *matter of principle and will continue to do so no matter how much evidence is presented;
2. They don't understand the issue of diesel emissions control in suffient technical detail;
3. They haven't read all the available information which explains why all diesel cars built by JLR on the D8 platform have the defect;
4. They can't believe that a company like JLR could engage in an orchestrated cover up on such a huge scale in order to hide such appalling corporate incompetence;
5. They don't understand or haven't read JLRP00100;
6. They haven't recognised the logical significance of the fact that 2 different cars fitted with the same engine, both EU6 compliant but having DIFFERENT EXHAUSTS, can manage, in one case, 21000 miles between services yet in the other only 7,000 miles on average.

I think everybody should have access to the maximum amount of information when deciding which DS to buy and not be swayed by dogma and prejudice, one way or the other. People have a right to know that the Landmark comes complete with the old exhaust problem and, until JLR states otherwise, there is not going to be a fix. This appears to be the unfortunate truth.

Regarding the amount of oil. The problem has been going on for three years. In that time at least 500,000 affected cars have completed a total of 10,000,000,000 miles at an average of 10K per annum. Total number of services as per JLR marketing: 476,000. Number of services likely to have been completed at 8,000 average mileage: 1.25 million. Additional oil required for 774,000 unexpected services = 5 million litres. If you don't know how many litres in a gallon, that's just tough.

*This is your right. But be man enough to say as much and don't embarrass yourself by pretending otherwise.
 
#19 ·
Barnsh said:
Dashnine said:
Trouble is the D5 isn't immune either, great that you got rid of the oil dilution and are happy with yours but a friend of mine got the bullet on the first shot with their D5, rejected it with oil dilution and 16 other faults and ran into the same bullet of oil dilution again with a FFRR, both were V6 diesels.
Thanks to forum members contributions ( and Landrovers JLRP 00100 we know pretty well which models are affected , this is useful to new purchasers.
I see the TDV6 is being dropped in favour of ingenium , I guess there won't be a resolution for those owners.
I don't think the Ingenium 6 pot is coming any time soon. The TDV6 was dropped last year for the twin turbo 3L SDV6 which owners are hoping won't have the problem. The TDV6 guys who bought since 1st Jan 2017 are in still in the dark because, apart from one guy in the US, nobody has bothered to have any oil samples tested. Meanwhile 4000 to 5000 miles is the norm between services.
 
#21 ·
PhilMabbots17 said:
Every time someone makes a post in the forum to the effect that the AJ200D Discovery Sport is "no different" to other EU6 diesel cars in respect of post injection, active regeneration, diesel dilution or frequency of oil services, one or more of the following applies:

1. They are deliberately defending JLR as a *matter of principle and will continue to do so no matter how much evidence is presented;
2. They don't understand the issue of diesel emissions control in suffient technical detail;
3. They haven't read all the available information which explains why all diesel cars built by JLR on the D8 platform have the defect;
4. They can't believe that a company like JLR could engage in an orchestrated cover up on such a huge scale in order to hide such appalling corporate incompetence;
5. They don't understand or haven't read JLRP00100;
6. They haven't recognised the logical significance of the fact that 2 different cars fitted with the same engine, both EU6 compliant but having DIFFERENT EXHAUSTS, can manage, in one case, 21000 miles between services yet in the other only 7,000 miles on average.

I think everybody should have access to the maximum amount of information when deciding which DS to buy and not be swayed by dogma and prejudice, one way or the other. People have a right to know that the Landmark comes complete with the old exhaust problem and, until JLR states otherwise, there is not going to be a fix. This appears to be the unfortunate truth.

Regarding the amount of oil. The problem has been going on for three years. In that time at least 500,000 affected cars have completed a total of 10,000,000,000 miles at an average of 10K per annum. Total number of services as per JLR marketing: 476,000. Number of services likely to have been completed at 8,000 average mileage: 1.25 million. Additional oil required for 774,000 unexpected services = 5 million litres. If you don't know how many litres in a gallon, that's just tough.

*This is your right. But be man enough to say as much and don't embarrass yourself by pretending otherwise.
I agree with the basis of the calculation and make that about 1.108 million gallons. However, in reality, the number of Evo and DS diesel cars is higher than half a million, then there's E-pace on top. Plus it ignores all of the TDV6 Range Rovers and Discoveries. So the true volume of wasted oil is probably nearer to 7 million litres or 1.5 million Imperial gallons, used in 1 million services over three years.

The oil probably sets them back about £2 a litre and the wholesale price of filters is a couple of quid at most. So that's a cost to the bottom line of about £16 million to date. Then there's the cross-charge to the (independent) dealers for their labour which I gather is about £90 per warranty/goodwill oil change. The full cost to JLR is therefore somewhere in the region of £100 million spread over 40 months.

I don't see JLR as a company to be giving away £100 million of goods and services willy-nilly unless its lawyers had told it that there was no alternative, if it wanted to avoid something far worse. No-one has ever seriously believed the twaddle about driving style. So why are the dealers all still spitting out this lie in such a consistent fashion? It's as if they have all been programmed...
 
#22 ·
TeddyBear said:
I agree with the basis of the calculation and make that about 1.108 million gallons. However, in reality, the number of Evo and DS diesel cars is higher than half a million, then there's E-pace on top. Plus it ignores all of the TDV6 Range Rovers and Discoveries. So the true volume of wasted oil is probably nearer to 7 million litres or 1.5 million Imperial gallons, used in 1 million services over three years.

The oil probably sets them back about £2 a litre and the wholesale price of filters is a couple of quid at most. So that's a cost to the bottom line of about £16 million to date. Then there's the cross-charge to the (independent) dealers for their labour which I gather is about £90 per warranty/goodwill oil change. The full cost to JLR is therefore somewhere in the region of £100 million spread over 40 months.

I don't see JLR as a company to be giving away £100 million of goods and services willy-nilly unless its lawyers had told it that there was no alternative, if it wanted to avoid something far worse. No-one has ever seriously believed the twaddle about driving style. So why are the dealers all still spitting out this lie in such a consistent fashion? It's as if they have all been programmed...
OK, obviously I didn't look deeply enough into the scale of this before estimating that half a million cars might be affected by the oil dilution problem. JLR's official sales reports show that the total number of D8-based cars (L550, L538 and X540) sold since 01/09/2015 (MY16/17/18/19) is actually 735,371 (mainly diesels) and that All-New D5 (L462) units sold since 01/01/2017 is 82,680. On top of that a significant proportion of the 454,158 Range Rovers and RR Sports sold since 01/09/2015 (MY16/17/18/19) will have the 3.0L TDV6 engine with "higher than expected" FIO dilution as per JLRP00100 (all numbers quoted exclude December 2018 sales). So comfortably it's a million and a half gallons of additional oil that have been used due to premature dilution - or 5,700 tons and by all accounts it is still rising at the rate of 5 tons per day. :eek:

HJ said in his Agony Column on Saturday, 5th May 2018 that the dilution problem can't be fixed in the Evoque, Discovery Sport or the Jaguar E-Pace because the Freelander II floor pan they all share has insufficient space between the engine and the bulkhead for the close-coupled DPF that the Ingenium diesel needs to work properly, as it does in the Jaguars. For more details of the questions and replies printed that day, see Newbies Should Read This. Last Saturday, in the the Daily Telegraph print edition, he told one correspondent to his column: I wouldn't get involved with ANY JLR diesels until the company has sorted them out. That leaves V6 petrols, maybe Ingenium petrols. Don't say that you weren't warned.

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