Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Faults and Fixes
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PhilMabbots17
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Or..... maybe this one could be genuinely due to driving style. Cold oil, cold engine, drained oil supply channel, get in, start up, accelerate too hard before it has got up to temperature.... repeat 30 times in a month... on days like this...

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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Brianthemodeller » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:45 pm

So, the plot thickens...

Had Inchcape Preston and LR Assist on the phone this afternoon. They have advised that I use the car as little as possible and have arranged to collect it tomorrow and leave me a courtesy car for the duration! Parts are, apparently, on back order but they are concerned about damage to the engine from continued use.

In response to Phil, I do a lot of early starts (5am ish) followed by runs of 100-200 miles with very little short run work and I drive the DS like Miss Daisy is in the back! Whilst some of my colleagues believe I live in a frozen wasteland that exists north of Birmingham, its only Blackpool so no major temperature extremes...

I have asked Inchcape to save the parts they take out (presuming they are replacing the shafts and bearings and not the engine) so I can have a look at them. I’ll post pictures if I can...
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by DroitwichGas » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:13 pm

PhilMabbots17 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:58 pm
Or..... maybe this one could be genuinely due to driving style. Cold oil, cold engine, drained oil supply channel, get in, start up, accelerate too hard before it has got up to temperature.... repeat 30 times in a month... on days like this...
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So we pay £30,000/£40,000+ for a car but can't accelerate above what, 2,000 rpm, for the first 5 miles of every journey in the winter, I wish LR had informed me that was the case and I would have bought a Dacia Duster instead!

I drive my car to and from the railystation every day does that mean I'm going to require an annual change of balancer shafts if LR can't fix the problems, which seems unlikely on cars already manufactured.


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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Barnsh » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:42 pm

DroitwichGas wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:52 pm
Natsweeb wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:07 pm
Further to my earlier post the car is in the workshop today and it is balance shaft problem. Parts are ordered and meanwhile they have replaced rear disc which they say are corroded. Shafts will be there tomorrow and car should be back with me Saturday. That seems incredible judging the amount of work needed-watch this space!
Senior Technician said that there is no chance that oil contamination has anything to do with the problem. The oil is sampled evert few seconds and the contamination is negligible when the the warning appears to allow plenty of time to change it, and mine still had over 1500 miles to run.The rollers run directly on the shafts and there have been problems with the case-hardening of them This is very feasible as I have seen this on the inner races of expensive bearings in the industry I work in.
He said the effect is to make the shaft 'pound coin-like', us more senior engineers say 'threepenny bit shaped'!
I would have hoped that with todays technology the standard would have been maintained at the correct level.
If it is just an issue with the balance shafts then why can't LR just fix the issue by upgrading the shafts/bearings, I sense you've fell for what my dealer told me when I had my shafts replaced, that it was just a bad batch of shafts, However the Velar etc built just a few months ago are still developing the same problems. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mk2 Evoque owners don't start reporting similar problems in a few months time, it's surprising LR are still producing cars with an obvious known fault, as it must be costing them a small fortune to keep on replacing the shafts in so many different models.

Edit: Perhaps they stopped producing the Velar for this reason as it seems an odd move if true, as I was told by my dealer it's presently their best seller??

https://www.velarforums.co.uk/viewtopic ... aa4709e142
Yes I noticed no Velar fir Q1 too , but the FPace is still rolling off the same production line .
Only new item on the production line is the new FPace V8 550 bhp SVR has been introduced and they have a fair few orders for this in UK and USA . Might the new FPace have knocked the Velar for a Quarter? Plenty of Velar on forecourts.
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Brianthemodeller » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:30 pm

So, now the satisfied (if temporary) owner of a Range Rover Sport TDV6 HSE whilst they sort out my DS. Managed to get an agreement that they will give me a full tank of diesel in the DS as recompense for the additional cost of running the RRS and, most surprisingly, they have SIGNED a document stating that I can reject the DS if the repair isn’t carried out to my satisfaction at the first attempt!

No timescale for completion as the parts are on back order but they are trying to sort everything out...
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Natsweeb » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:18 am

Now I am unfortunately involved directly in this problem, I have read through all the posts.
One thing that I can't quite get to grips with is that a couple of posters are suggesting the outer races are not replaced.
Surely this is essential and no technician would leave them unchanged?
It is worrying, that like brake discs, the fault is not addressed and eliminated for good, as it seems the replacement shafts are failing.
Having come fro a background of non-sophisticated diesels and early turbos, it has always been my practise to let the engine idle for a short time before driving and not driving hard for a mile or two.
Nathan


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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Badgerface » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:27 am

Natsweeb wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:18 am
Having come fro a background of non-sophisticated diesels and early turbos, it has always been my practise to let the engine idle for a short time before driving and not driving hard for a mile or two.
Sound advice! Turbo oil temperature needs to warm up before you start ragging it - doing it from cold is the easiest way to blow it up. (I learnt this the hard way back in the '80s with a short-lived affair with a Renault 5 GT Turbo :lol: )
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Natsweeb » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:17 pm

Got car back yesterday and all problems fixed. New rear discs and pads, new balance shafts.
I think that Stratstone Aylesbury did this quickly. The car want in on Wednesday and the balance shafts were ordered for Thursday, meanwhile the brakes were done. It was out for a short road test on Saturday and a longer one Monday morning . I was kept updated on the progress every day.
Technician said that they had only one replacement balance shaft fail and that was not recent, so hoping for the best!
Their warranty invoice was over £1600.
I can only speak as I find, and I think that Stratstone handled this very well-they did not cause the problems after all..
Sadly while I was there there was an example of a customer being rude and having a bullying attitude to the staff and this gets Land Rover owners a bad name as it apparently is not a rare occurrence.


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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Barnsh » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:24 pm

Natsweeb wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:18 am
Now I am unfortunately involved directly in this problem, I have read through all the posts.
One thing that I can't quite get to grips with is that a couple of posters are suggesting the outer races are not replaced.
Surely this is essential and no technician would leave them unchanged?
It is worrying, that like brake discs, the fault is not addressed and eliminated for good, as it seems the replacement shafts are failing.
Having come fro a background of non-sophisticated diesels and early turbos, it has always been my practise to let the engine idle for a short time before driving and not driving hard for a mile or two.
Nathan
Yes I posted this earlier, there is no outer race in the parts for the job to replace balance shafts, the bearing on the shaft is a part of the shaft, to me this suggests there may even be no outer race just straight onto a pressed outer ring in the aluminium casing.
That’s why I posted it before , as on changing bearings you’d expect to tap out the outer race, but no mention of it.
A question for your dealer I guess.
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Natsweeb » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Checked it out and the shaft is supplied as a set of shaft and two bearings, and the separate parts are not itemised as they must never be fitted without the other relevant components. The outer race is changed, and the inner race is the ground section on the shaft. The rollers are in a split cage like shell bearings and do not have to be pressed onto the shaft.Makes sense to me now.
But why they tend to call them 'needle bearings' I don't know!


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