Service interval

Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Faults and Fixes
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NoDiscoSport
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JLR is still working on it.....

Post by NoDiscoSport » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:10 pm

shouldvegotamerc wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:59 pm
CRC@LandRover wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:01 pm
Good afternoon,

Thank you all for your comments.

Should a vehicle require a service prior to the scheduled service a booking would need to be made with an approved Land Rover retailer to enable them to investigate the concerns further.

If an oil and filter change is required due to oil dilution this should be covered under the manufacturers warranty period.

Once the vehicle is outside of the manufacturers warranty each case is reviewed to establish if Land Rover will cover the cost of this. I would like to advise that many different factors are taken into consideration during the review.

Unfortunately at present this is still being investigated by the engineering team therefore I do not have any further updates I am able to provide to you at this time.

Thanks, Stacie
Dear CRC

Do you have any further information on this matter? I am very concerned that, rather than fix the problem causing the oil dilution, JLR long since stopped looking for an engineering solution and is now trying to mask a major defect by telling its dealers to ignore customers' requests for assistance. Another owner has just reported on this forum that their dealer refuses to perform an oil change with diesel dilution of over 7%, despite the fact that they have a service plan. The other comments that this poster attributes to your dealership are very distressing for a prospective customer to read.

This has gone on for long enough. Please provide an update or this organisation will be pleased to take its business elsewhere.

This is the post I am referring to: Oil Service

Best Regards
CRC@LandRover wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:57 pm
Hi Shouldvegotamerc,

Thank you for your comment.

I can confirm that Land Rover are currently working on a software enhancement in regards to the concerns that have been raised.

Unfortunately at this time, we have not been provided with an update as to when this will be released.

Once I have received further information I will arrange for the details to be posted in this forum.

I apologise for any inconvenience that this may cause.


Thanks,
Becci
That's just been posted on the Customer Relations Forum for any readers who aren't registered. So it would appear that three years after this car was first sold with its faulty exhaust system they are still working on a "software enhancement" to fix a problem which they said a year ago was being caused by "hardware and architecture" issues. To me that sounds like total rubbish. Anyone looking at a diesel DS today needs to think extremely carefully indeed about the consequences of buying into a known problem that has dragged on for this long without resolution. I honestly don't see it being fixed, just as HJ said months ago in his column.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:15 pm

If your dealer still insists on claiming inanely that your "driving style" is at fault for your car's excessive oil dilution and premature service request I suggest downloading the video above (link also repeated below) to your phone, tablet or PC and then asking him to watch it with you over a cup of coffee. Tell him that you bought the car because you thought that this was how it could be used. Ask him to show you marketing images or video footage of a besuited executive tearing illegally down the M1 at 90 mph which would, presumably, fit with their current definition of the right "driving style".

To perform the download on Windows type the URL with the letters "ss" immediately before "youtube" like this : "https://www.ssyoutube.com/watch?v=plIXz9TE7Lk" and follow the instructions to "download video in browser" - it will take up 29MB of your hard drive. Other videos that influenced my personal decision to buy a DS for use in a rural environment were the following: in each one it's obvious that this car was intended to be used regularly for low-speed, off-road driving on tracks and the like.

""

""

""

""

...and the original...
""

Also available here///
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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Lutra
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Re: Service interval

Post by Lutra » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:08 pm

ImageThanks, NDS, for more valuable info.

Like Elmo, and many others on this forum, my main reason for buying the DS was its off road capability, which featured heavily in all JLR DS advertising campaigns.

Here's the reply I sent the dealership this morning.

"Thank you for your email.
I was expecting more specific information regarding the exact parameters which allow you to reset the oil service required message without changing the oil. Please get back to me with the exact parameters and let me know why you are no longer applying "JLR P00100" (Oil dilution if over 6.1% must be changed.) This was in effect when I brought the car and is, I believe, still being applied by other dealerships.
I assume that this information is in the public domain and, as it addressed to me, I am free to share it with whom I please. "


Now I know the service manager was talking complete drivel when he told me there was a physical sensor detecting oil dilution levels I'll follow up with another email and ask that he views the videos in your link. The really annoying thing is that I will have to grind them down before they look after my car adequately. When my last DS displayed the "oil service required" message (after 15K) a landrover assist technician told me failing to change the oil could result in a catastrophic engine failure.

Unsurprisingly, I haven't had a reply to my email and will be contacting the dealership again tomorrow. If I don't recieve a satisfactory reponse I may visit in person. I'm tempted to ask for a transcript of yesterday's telephone conversation with the service manager.
NDS, your suggestion of sitting down over a cup of coffe and viewing JLR DS marketing videos is excellent. Thanks for the link!

Chin, Chin! :-
)download/file.php?mode=view&id=8549

Image.jpg

Gone
2 manual TD4 RAV4s
3 TD4 manual Freelanders, problem free, and a joy to drive whatever the driving style!
MY16.5 Manual SE Tech TD150, RR, FSS, full leather.
Current MY18 (I think) Manual SE Tech TD 150, roof rails, FS spare, full leather.


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Lutra
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Re: Service interval

Post by Lutra » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:27 pm

Here's the reply I recieved from my dealership.

"Service Compliance Notification JLRP00100v2

There are three points of interest mentioned in this Bulletin which may help with understanding the nature of your concern
If you have access to this Bulletin you can read the following:

· Page 3 // Section 3, Service Message Reset for Oil Service // Bullet point 3 reads -- Oil dilution (diesel only) (requested if > 6.1% ) (Varies across engines )
I have high lighted the words ‘Varies across engines. So you can see that 6.1 % is not necessarily specific to your vehicle. It is quite normal to reset at 7.1%

· Page 4 // Section 2, Service due to oil dilution // Bullet point 2 reads --
Marketing brochure and internet sites have been updated from 1st June 2017 to set future customer
expectation that service intervals will depend on driving style and usage.

· Page 4 // Section 2, Service due to oil dilution // Bullet points 3 & 4 reads --
Following completion of the campaigns, the customer will be expected to bring their vehicle in to a
retailer once the 'Service Required' message is displayed on the Instrument Cluster or InControl App.
The retailer should use the JLR Approved Diagnostic Tool to determine if an 'Oil Service' or 'Full
Service' is required based on the % oil dilution and time and distance covered since last full service.
Any additional oil services that are required on top of published full service intervals/current service
plans (up to 50,000 miles or 80,500 km) can be provided to the customer free of charge using Goodwill.
This applies to the following models only:
 16-17MY 3.0L diesel Range Rover / Range Rover Sport with a warranty start date prior to 1st
June 2017
 16-17MY 2.0L diesel Evoque / Discovery Sport with a warranty start date prior to 1st June 2017
 Oil services required on these models outside of the specified period, or on any other Jaguar Land
Rover vehicles not specified above, should be charged directly to the customer."

This contradicts the last email which suggested one "goodwill service" could be provided.
When I raised the issue of oil dilution prior to ordering in October 2017 the salesman, and a rep from servicing, at the same dealership, assured me that additional oil services would be applied under warranty, if required by the vehicle.

Any suggestions, gratefully recieved.
Jan :(
Gone
2 manual TD4 RAV4s
3 TD4 manual Freelanders, problem free, and a joy to drive whatever the driving style!
MY16.5 Manual SE Tech TD150, RR, FSS, full leather.
Current MY18 (I think) Manual SE Tech TD 150, roof rails, FS spare, full leather.


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Re: Service interval

Post by Badgerface » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 pm

Sounds like they have changed their minds. In your position, I would request a meeting face to face with both service manager and salesman concerned, and ask for answers to the problem and what the dealership are going to do about it. If they aren’t prepared to stand by their initial assurances, start rejection proceesdings without further delay.
17MY HSE Luxury TD4 Ingenium 180ps - Aintree Green with Black Pack/ICTP/825w Meridian Audio
13MY HSE Luxury FL2 2.2 SD4 190ps - Baltic Blue with NO Oil dilution issues whatsoever!
12MY HSE FL2. 2.2 SD4 190ps - Sumatra Black - Gone


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Lutra
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Re: Service interval

Post by Lutra » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:35 pm

Thanks!
I'll give it a go.
Gone
2 manual TD4 RAV4s
3 TD4 manual Freelanders, problem free, and a joy to drive whatever the driving style!
MY16.5 Manual SE Tech TD150, RR, FSS, full leather.
Current MY18 (I think) Manual SE Tech TD 150, roof rails, FS spare, full leather.


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:50 am

Lutra wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:27 pm
Here's the reply I recieved from my dealership.

"Service Compliance Notification JLRP00100v2

There are three points of interest mentioned in this Bulletin which may help with understanding the nature of your concern
If you have access to this Bulletin you can read the following:

· Page 3 // Section 3, Service Message Reset for Oil Service // Bullet point 3 reads -- Oil dilution (diesel only) (requested if > 6.1% ) (Varies across engines )
I have high lighted the words ‘Varies across engines. So you can see that 6.1 % is not necessarily specific to your vehicle. It is quite normal to reset at 7.1%

· Page 4 // Section 2, Service due to oil dilution // Bullet point 2 reads --
Marketing brochure and internet sites have been updated from 1st June 2017 to set future customer
expectation that service intervals will depend on driving style and usage.

· Page 4 // Section 2, Service due to oil dilution // Bullet points 3 & 4 reads --
Following completion of the campaigns, the customer will be expected to bring their vehicle in to a
retailer once the 'Service Required' message is displayed on the Instrument Cluster or InControl App.
The retailer should use the JLR Approved Diagnostic Tool to determine if an 'Oil Service' or 'Full
Service' is required based on the % oil dilution and time and distance covered since last full service.
Any additional oil services that are required on top of published full service intervals/current service
plans (up to 50,000 miles or 80,500 km) can be provided to the customer free of charge using Goodwill.
This applies to the following models only:
 16-17MY 3.0L diesel Range Rover / Range Rover Sport with a warranty start date prior to 1st
June 2017
 16-17MY 2.0L diesel Evoque / Discovery Sport with a warranty start date prior to 1st June 2017
 Oil services required on these models outside of the specified period, or on any other Jaguar Land
Rover vehicles not specified above, should be charged directly to the customer."

This contradicts the last email which suggested one "goodwill service" could be provided.
When I raised the issue of oil dilution prior to ordering in October 2017 the salesman, and a rep from servicing, at the same dealership, assured me that additional oil services would be applied under warranty, if required by the vehicle.

Any suggestions, gratefully recieved.
Jan :(
Hi Jan

The obvious points to note are:

1. "Differs across engines" meant Ingenium versus TDV6, not within a population of engines. So far as we know it is still set to go off at 6.1% on the Ingenium 2.0L diesel. For the sake of the car, the oil change ought be done immediately after the Service Message appears.
2. They are implying Caveat emptor, i.e. we changed the marketing materials to prevent you being annoyed when this happened.
3. They also appear to be saying that you don't qualify for goodwill because date of warranty commencement is post 1st June 2017. Also it's 18MY, so outside the scope of that SCN.
Technically 2. and 3. are correct but that's why you, and people like you, bought the service plan with the 4 extra oil changes. Also, even without a service plan, you had the comments made by the salesman and the service rep. One way or another your oil should be changed, especially since you have an actual oil dilution figure that backs up the car's estimate.

I think you have to get on to JLR directly to get this sorted, if that email really is their final word. Get an 80000 case number and refer to the recent post from CRC where they acknowledge that there is a known problem that engineering is working on. I think your case is sad because it shows that, even after taking every sensible precaution to avoid being dragged back into this mire, the company and its dealers (in some cases) still can't get their act together.

Good luck
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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Lutra
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Re: Service interval

Post by Lutra » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:47 pm

Thanks NDS,. Its makes all the difference when information is put in context. I've drafted an email to the dealership and wonder if I could pm it to you for an opinion.
Cheers,
Jan
Gone
2 manual TD4 RAV4s
3 TD4 manual Freelanders, problem free, and a joy to drive whatever the driving style!
MY16.5 Manual SE Tech TD150, RR, FSS, full leather.
Current MY18 (I think) Manual SE Tech TD 150, roof rails, FS spare, full leather.


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Rejecting a Discovery Sport

Post by NoDiscoSport » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:48 am

Rejecting under Section 11 Consumer Rights Act 2015 Goods to be as described.

Many thanks to townandcountry for providing his account of a successful rejection under Section 11 CRA 2015. See this thread for more details of how to obtain assistance from the financial ombudsman when rejecting a car for this reason. My own successful rejection of a DS in October 2017 included a similar claim that the car I bought was "not as described". That rejection was uncontested, possibly because there was no finance involved and both JLR and the dealer in question were aware that I was prepared to take legal action to recover my money.

Rejecting under Section 9 Consumer Rights Act 2015 Goods to be of satisfactory quality.

There has been a further ruling by the financial ombudsman in a case brought against Land Rover Financial Services for rejection of a Discovery Sport which the owner said was "not of satisfactory quality". The judgment is attached below and the original can be downloaded at the FOS case library: DRN5311041.pdf . The financial ombudsman, Richard Houlbrook, made the following observations in respect of the known DPF problem which is covered elsewhere on the forum.

Finally I can’t ignore the fact there is a known problem with some of the manufacturer’s DPFs. The evidence suggests to me, this makes it more likely that Mr W’s car was fitted with a faulty part than if the manufacturer only had occasional DPF faults which couldn’t be considered part of a wider problem.

To summarise, Mr W spent £40,000 to get a brand new, premium, car. I think it would be reasonable for him to expect it to be trouble free. For the reasons stated above I don’t consider that the car supplied to be of acceptable quality.

DRN5311041.pdf
(98.01 KiB) Downloaded 74 times

17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:24 am

It seems they're still dealing with this in Italy.

Translation from Google.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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