Service interval

Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Faults and Fixes
PaulCP
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Re: Service interval

Post by PaulCP » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:29 pm

PhilMabbots17 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:07 pm
Early in September 2015 someone had already whispered to HJ that these vehicles were being quarantined because of an EU6 AdBlue Certification issue. Who outside the company would have known about that? It's not exactly the sort of thing that you just make up, If that was the cause, why couldn't they just say so? Quarantine20150907.PNG
Isn’t that what happened to the car that @Muddyboots originally ordered. Quarantined for months with no explanation why at the time :(
Now: Lexus RX 450h F Sport + Premier Pack
GONE Jan 2018:- HSE Lux Firenze Red (MY17), Ivory Interior, Adaptive Dynamics, Adaptive Headlights, Surround Cameras,

Previous: Range Rover Sport HSE Black Edn, Ipanema Sand


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BobbyBox
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Re: Service interval

Post by BobbyBox » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:09 am

And what about those that have never suffered any emissions system related issues?
Surely, if it were an inherent architectural design fault we’d all experience it?
Unless of course there is a ‘driving style’ that means the exhaust configuration in the DS works correctly.

This is all conjecture as we’re still waiting for the string of vehicle failures.
One or two forum members are pushing this agenda (whilst having disposed of their own vehicles). None of whom were actually involved in the design of this particular system. Rather they are motivated by their own personal bitter experience with their DS.

Once we have documented failures indicating a consistent pattern then we have a case for group legal action (e.g Ford EcoBoost overheating). Until then this thread is spreading FUD.

BB
Discovery Sport 2.0 HSE TD4 (180) MY16, Auto, Loire Blue, Almond Interior, Adaptive Xenons, Roof Rails, Spare Wheel, flaps, privacy glass, memory pack, travall dog guard. Built Oct 2015.


Barnsh
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Re: Service interval

Post by Barnsh » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:41 am

BobbyBox wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:09 am
And what about those that have never suffered any emissions system related issues?
Surely, if it were an inherent architectural design fault we’d all experience it?
Unless of course there is a ‘driving style’ that means the exhaust configuration in the DS works correctly.

This is all conjecture as we’re still waiting for the string of vehicle failures.
One or two forum members are pushing this agenda (whilst having disposed of their own vehicles). None of whom were actually involved in the design of this particular system. Rather they are motivated by their own personal bitter experience with their DS.

Once we have documented failures indicating a consistent pattern then we have a case for group legal action (e.g Ford EcoBoost overheating). Until then this thread is spreading FUD.

BB
It’s not just this forum it’s a wide spread issue :
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/forums/t ... -problems/

Plus as JLR admitted themselves “hardware and architectural differences “ means it doesn’t perform like the XF etc. In JLRP00100. In there it also states “unexpected high number of regenerations” . So you think that was all a deliberate design of JLR to get these consequences.

Faulty DPF boxes marked with FB?

A light that changes from orange ( take it for a long run) to red ( take it to the dealer for forced regeneration) in 2.1 seconds. Now fixed for some , but many owners charged £1500 for a new DPF before the fix.

Folk are free to post there thoughts and ideas and others are free to disagree and point out why they think so. Nothing wrong with discussion.

You don’t need a class action JLR have consistently avoided legal cases and settled in advance, I know that as I’ve helped enough with rejection for the past two years.

Glad your car seems ok.
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:50 am

BobbyBox wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:09 am
And what about those that have never suffered any emissions system related issues?
Surely, if it were an inherent architectural design fault we’d all experience it?
Unless of course there is a ‘driving style’ that means the exhaust configuration in the DS works correctly.

This is all conjecture as we’re still waiting for the string of vehicle failures.
One or two forum members are pushing this agenda (whilst having disposed of their own vehicles). None of whom were actually involved in the design of this particular system. Rather they are motivated by their own personal bitter experience with their DS.

Once we have documented failures indicating a consistent pattern then we have a case for group legal action (e.g Ford EcoBoost overheating). Until then this thread is spreading FUD.

BB
I understand your position, BB. It must be baffling to keep reading about services at 7,000 miles when there is apparently nothing wrong with your own car. But we know that there is a systematic problem because there is a service compliance notification describing it, complete with the approved procedure to ameliorate the effects of the problem. Comments by some of the more forthright dealers, changes to the service provisions in the service plan, free oil services by the thousand, tacit acknowledement on the forum by CRC that there is an issue that engineering knows about, an oil change survey which shows the average service interval is just half what people were sold, not to mention hundreds of posts here and elsewhere - all of these facts combine to provide a convincing portfolio of evidence that there is, in fact, an inherent issue with the choice of hardware and the design of the exhaust architecture in these vehicles. There are several reasons why some vehicles (especially the very early ones) would have gone to 21,000 miles or 24 months without an oil change being called for by the car, and these are all fully explained above. Your own vehicle may well fit into one of the categories that has been identified.

The additional costs of ownership caused by this problem will, over ten years, run into thousands of pounds for each vehicle affected. This forum does not purport to repesent just the interests of those fortunate enough to be able to buy a new £45,000 car, does it? JLR have had no choice during the warranty period but to pick up the tab for their mistake. But recently they have adopted a more aggressive line which implies that owners may have to battle it out with their dealers once the 3 year warranty period has ended. Many people have already discovered to their cost (read their accounts above) how hard it can be to obtain fair and equitable treatment at some of the dealerships - after all, they don't like being saddled with the cost of someone else's mistakes any more than the rest of us do.

If there is to be any form of group legal action it will have to be built around a financial claim that owning one of these cars created a financial loss which the buyer wasn't prepared for when they bought it. This right of redress will pass onto the second and any subsequent owners so anyone who sells their vehicle and doesn't make the next owner aware that it needed an oil change twice a year, or every 7,000 miles, would also be fair game. Therefore, ultimately, the only party that should be asked to pick up the bill for the problem is the person that caused it in the first place: Jaguar Land Rover plc. On the evidence thus far, it appears that the problem isn't going away for the affected cars and sage minds have concluded that a proper fix won't be introduced until there is a major redesign, possibly a model change. This leaves currrent owners with their problem.

Keeping the issue alive fulfills two complementary requirements. Firstly, it maintains the pressure on JLR to actually put their hands in their very deep pockets and pay what's needed to sort out the mess, through a demonstration of knowledge, cooperation and determination. Secondly, it alerts people, many of whom are new to the unique experience of owning a Land Rover, to some vital information that they almost certainly wouldn't have been told about when they picked up their brochure. This might then feed back into the sales numbers and be noticed by someone with more than half a braincell and a periscope pointed outside the JLR "box". Only yesterday I received another "thank you" message via PM from someone who had decided against buying a DS diesel. Excellent decision, but if they hadn't come here they would have made a very costly mistake.

If someone wants to attribute all of this to bitterness, they are sadly mistaken. And, if you will forgive me for being so direct, they probably haven't followed the intricate detail of a what is now a fairly complicated matter.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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S marty
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Re: Service interval

Post by S marty » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:51 pm

With respect to some hard work done here there are no emmisions control experts on here, most 'knowledge' is is google and guesswork.

People are being advised on a course of action by others who are quite often wrong.

This is not a correct way of going about things

Of course spread the word about JLRP00100,oil dilution and FB boxes , but why all the amateur sleuthing? this is resulting in conclusions that are wrong.
Eu6 systems are highly complex , Each part interacts with each other in a chain, one error and the whole thing doesnt work as designed,

Read this thread from the start and you will see the learning journey and the amount of false conclusions and dead ends. yet at the end we still really dont know any more than at the start.

As I said I will not be arguing the ins and outs of it all anymore.

For me its take the extra oil changes , use the car while it is warrantied, then buy a petrol. or swap sooner if the pcp finances make sense.


Barnsh
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Re: Service interval

Post by Barnsh » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:22 pm

S marty wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:51 pm


For me its take the extra oil changes , use the car while it is warrantied, then buy a petrol. or swap sooner if the pcp finances make sense.
Fair points , however re the above in particular, that doesn’t help those that don’t intend to change their car every three years. It doesn’t help those not on PCP or finance. Nor does it help those that have paid for new SCRF boxes at £1500 when they shouldn’t have. Nor does it help those left stranded at the side of the road having been told by sales “ yes it’s fine for the school run” .
Two questions raised by owners on twitter yesterday
1)Why does my DEf on,y last 4000 miles from a full tank?
2) my oil service light is on my dealer says it needs a reset can any dealer do this , it’s only a year old .

There are many owners totally unaware of the issues , which is why coming to a forum can help them decide. It’s up to owners or prospective purchasers to make there own decisions with all the facts.

How many DS would be sold if JLR said :
  • Servicing is every 6-8 thousand miles on average.

    DEF will need refilling every 4000 miles, ( minor but annoying when originally 13000 estimate)

    The DPF has a fair chance of not lasting its initial designed lifetime through over regeneration.

    There is a problem with balance shafts that may need an engine change but it’s pot luck who this happens to, we’ve no idea what’s causing this yet.

    If you buy a used vehicle you may get the BPillar tick , that’s pot luck too and the fix is a hammer and chisel to your door seams and roof . It’s a 5 stage fix that doesn’t always work. Plus a few welds on the BPillars
.

If it was one issue and resolved at no cost , that would be different , but some of these items are a hugely expense out of warranty and that to many people is an unacceptable risk.There is no fix either, one poor chap has had two new engines for the balance shaft issue.

The ins and outs of guessing what’s wrong with the emissions system does no harm , in fact why don’t JLR come clean and just say what it is, that would end the guessing. It’s not driving style that’s for sure.
The fact some University graduates found the cheat device in Robert Bosch EDC17 units is also interesting as JLR use the same., plus the XE has shown it had odd results when tested.

Discussion is always good as long as nastiness doesn’t creep on.

People need to go in to any big purchase let alone a car with their eyes open .
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:25 pm

S marty wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:51 pm
With respect to some hard work done here there are no emmisions control experts on here, most 'knowledge' is is google and guesswork.
There's definitely been some hard work. Obtaining some of it involved risks too, especially for the JLR employees and associates that shared confidential information with us. The fact is that there's tons of hard evidence on this thread which JLR would never have disclosed. I suggest that "most" of what's here is solid and pretty well understood. Please tell us which "facts" are wrong so that people holding qualifications in maths, chemistry and physics can respond.
People are being advised on a course of action by others who are quite often wrong.
Giving advice? What we are all doing is sharing our views and any information that comes our way.
Read this thread from the start and you will see the learning journey and the amount of false conclusions and dead ends. yet at the end we still really dont know any more than at the start.
That sentence contradicts itself. Either it is a "learning journey" or it's not. If we don't know any more at the end than we did at the beginning, it's not been a "learning journey", now has it?
As I said I will not be arguing the ins and outs of it all anymore.
You just did. You are smearing the hard evidence with pejorative phrases like "amateur sleuthing" and "guesswork". Tell me that wasn't your intention.
For me its take the extra oil changes , use the car while it is warrantied, then buy a petrol. or swap sooner if the pcp finances make sense.
That is one sensible path. There are others.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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S marty
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Re: Service interval

Post by S marty » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:33 pm

yes my intention is to banish guess work and see evidence backed truths, whats wrong with that?

if you cant prove it it didnt happen


Barnsh
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Re: Service interval

Post by Barnsh » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:01 pm

S marty wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:33 pm
yes my intention is to banish guess work and see evidence backed truths, whats wrong with that?

if you cant prove it it didnt happen
You can’t banish reasoned thinking and discussion though , all you can do is scroll on by and ignore it if you are disinterested in it, or any topic for that matter.
My18 FPace, 25t, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:50 pm

S marty wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:33 pm
yes my intention is to banish guess work and see evidence backed truths, whats wrong with that?

if you cant prove it it didnt happen
"The DS diesel emissions system doesn't work properly". I believe that statement to be true. It's much more than a guess, yet I would be hard pressed to prove it. But in the logic of your world, as expressed, it isn't happening. So was I wrong to make the statement?

Without guesswork science doesn't move forward. Guess - test - guess again - re-test. When you can't disprove the hypothesis, the scientific method accepts it as fact. If you just want the finished product, these forums are the wrong place to look. You need a library.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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