Service interval

Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Faults and Fixes
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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:47 pm

Regarding the source of the Iron, it is still disproportionately represented (compared to Cu and Al) which to me suggests metal on metal (i.e. Fe on Fe) contact during the longer and more frequent post injection events. I formed this view a year ago having read the following extract from a Korean study. It's still the best narrative account I've seen to describe how the diesel actually gets into the oil. It also shows that the over-simplified explanation of the diesel somehow "draining" into the sump following an interrupted regeneration is a pile of misleading, ill-informed tosh.
The main procedure of the mixing of the post-injected fuel with the oil is as follows: (1) The thickness of oil film on cylinder liner is maintained by piston motion that causes recirculation phenomena in the upper part of the oil film. Because injection timing is retarded by post injection, some of post-injected fuel escapes from piston bowl and some of this escaped fuel is directly adsorbed to the oil film. (2) Here, the reciprocating motion of a piston has not only new oil from the sump supplied to the liner but also the previous oil having a fuel component returned to the sump in terms of scraping down the oil film. (3) Oil dilution also occurs while the blow-by gas is passing through the ring pack of a piston [5-7]. Under normal operation, the main functions of oil film are to prevent wear by keeping metal surfaces and their asperities separated, to provide sealing from combustion products, and to transfer heat from the engine for cooling. When excessive fuel dilution occurs, the oil viscosity dramatically goes down and the strength of oil film becomes considerably weaker. These may allow an increase in wear and that can lead to engine failure.
Song & Choi September 2008.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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NoDiscoSport
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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:03 pm

The main procedure of the mixing of the post-injected fuel with the oil is as follows: (1) The thickness of oil film on cylinder liner is maintained by piston motion that causes recirculation phenomena in the upper part of the oil film. Because injection timing is retarded by post injection, some of post-injected fuel escapes from piston bowl and some of this escaped fuel is directly adsorbed to the oil film. (2) Here, the reciprocating motion of a piston has not only new oil from the sump supplied to the liner but also the previous oil having a fuel component returned to the sump in terms of scraping down the oil film. (3) Oil dilution also occurs while the blow-by gas is passing through the ring pack of a piston [5-7]. Under normal operation, the main functions of oil film are to prevent wear by keeping metal surfaces and their asperities separated, to provide sealing from combustion products, and to transfer heat from the engine for cooling. When excessive fuel dilution occurs, the oil viscosity dramatically goes down and the strength of oil film becomes considerably weaker. These may allow an increase in wear and that can lead to engine failure.
Song & Choi September 2008.
The engine "harvests" the FIO admixture during the induction stroke at the location highlighted on Song and Choi's original diagram. Looking at it afresh, something else has become obvious: the localised diesel concentration on the cylinder walls always has to be considerably higher than the percentage in the sump as a whole.

Scraped Oil.png

17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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Re: Service interval

Post by Badgerface » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:07 pm

I'm wondering if the recent PCM S/ware updates installed on my vehicle a fortnight or so ago by LR Assist, and/or the move to Shell Helix oil have made a difference to the counter.

I have been abroad for a week, therefore the vehicle hasn't been started or driven, and the service counter hasn't moved since 832 miles/18 days ago, and remains at 19850, the very same as it was reset to following its (early) 2 year/21000 mile service back on the 14th September.

I'll keep an eye on this one....
17MY HSE Luxury TD4 Ingenium 180ps - Aintree Green with Black Pack/ICTP/825w Meridian Audio
13MY HSE Luxury FL2 2.2 SD4 190ps - Baltic Blue with NO Oil dilution issues whatsoever!
12MY HSE FL2. 2.2 SD4 190ps - Sumatra Black - Gone


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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:30 pm

NoDiscoSport wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:19 pm
Barnsh wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:46 pm
Re the ECU files that's where I found it interesting the DS 150 (147) bhp initially is stated to have the EDC17CP55 file not the MEDC17 file for configuration.

Did they change the ECU at some point?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9348
Probably, https://www.ecufiles.com lists both EDC17CP55 and MEDC17_9 for the 150HP.

ecufiles.PNG

Or maybe MEDC17_9 is a sub-category of EDC17? Not enough info yet.
According to Alpha Engineering the MEDC17.9 is a variant of the EDC17CP55...

Alpha EDC17 CP55 MEDC 17.9.PNG

Corroborated by https://www.ecufiles.com/

Image
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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Re: Service interval

Post by Barnsh » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:27 pm

NoDiscoSport wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:30 pm
NoDiscoSport wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:19 pm
Barnsh wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:46 pm
Re the ECU files that's where I found it interesting the DS 150 (147) bhp initially is stated to have the EDC17CP55 file not the MEDC17 file for configuration.

Did they change the ECU at some point?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9348
Probably, https://www.ecufiles.com lists both EDC17CP55 and MEDC17_9 for the 150HP.

ecufiles.PNG

Or maybe MEDC17_9 is a sub-category of EDC17? Not enough info yet.
According to Alpha Engineering the MEDC17.9 is a variant of the EDC17CP55...

Alpha EDC17 CP55 MEDC 17.9.PNG

Corroborated by https://www.ecufiles.com/

Image
Ah. I wonder what the variant differences are .
I’ve been looking for the original Robert Bosch files for those without much luck , I found a site that says you can download for free then it gave me a blank file :-(
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Re: Service interval

Post by akp303 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:37 am

I recently booked a diesel DS and awaiting delivery. After looking at the kind of problems people are facing in this forum, I am a bit worried.

Would cancelling the order a knee jerk reaction? The purchase is in the UK.

I am aware the decision is mine to go ahead or not, but I am not really sure here.


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Re: Service interval

Post by Dashnine » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:45 am

akp303 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:37 am
I recently booked a diesel DS and awaiting delivery. After looking at the kind of problems people are facing in this forum, I am a bit worried.

Would cancelling the order a knee jerk reaction? The purchase is in the UK.

I am aware the decision is mine to go ahead or not, but I am not really sure here.
If you do a lot of short journeys of less than 20-30 minutes where you're not regular getting up to at least 40mph then maybe a Euro6 diesel isn't for you (it's not just Land Rover). A petrol engined vehicle maybe better it that's the case.
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Re: Service interval

Post by Zedman » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:50 am

Dashnine wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:45 am
akp303 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:37 am
I recently booked a diesel DS and awaiting delivery. After looking at the kind of problems people are facing in this forum, I am a bit worried.

Would cancelling the order a knee jerk reaction? The purchase is in the UK.

I am aware the decision is mine to go ahead or not, but I am not really sure here.
If you do a lot of short journeys of less than 20-30 minutes where you're not regular getting up to at least 40mph then maybe a Euro6 diesel isn't for you (it's not just Land Rover). A petrol engined vehicle maybe better it that's the case.
Excellent advice from -9.
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Re: Service interval

Post by discosportformums » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:26 am

akp303 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:37 am
I recently booked a diesel DS and awaiting delivery. After looking at the kind of problems people are facing in this forum, I am a bit worried.

Would cancelling the order a knee jerk reaction? The purchase is in the UK.

I am aware the decision is mine to go ahead or not, but I am not really sure here.
We read through every post to do with DPF problems, engine failures etc. and decided to wait until JLR have fixed their design/quality problems. There are high mileage cars with problems too, plus don't forget the people who thought they had escaped only to be saddled with dilution after having a service. Buy a petrol or wait for the hybrid. Or jump in and hope for the best? Easy choice.
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Re: Service interval

Post by NoDiscoSport » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:20 am

akp303 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:37 am
I recently booked a diesel DS and awaiting delivery. After looking at the kind of problems people are facing in this forum, I am a bit worried.

Would cancelling the order a knee jerk reaction? The purchase is in the UK.

I am aware the decision is mine to go ahead or not, but I am not really sure here.
The dilution problem is commonly misunderstood as a consequence of short journeys. That's convenient for JLR because it diverts attention away from the disclosures in JLRP00100. The following post from a year ago addresses a much wider problem because that was how I drove my DS (60-70 mph in top gear) and my dilution was about 1% for every 1000 miles. I think the dealer being quoted had a very good understanding of the problem.
PaulCP wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:34 am
VeryDiscoSport wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:28 pm
Charly777 wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:54 pm
Thanks, just checked there is Miller's near me, will call them tomorrow :D
My driving style is always in ECO mode with excellent MPG results, hopefully this will help to reduce dilution
You'd think so. But I've got a horrible feeling that it's actually the other way round!

I think your "feeling" is correct. My dealer confirmed that it has nothing to do with short journeys and more to do with the engine not being extended enough.

So, my theory FWIW is, long journeys at 60-70mph in 9th gear has the engine barely more than ticking over and not generating enough heat for passive regens hence the higher amount of active regens which is causing the dilution.
17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Rejected as "not of satisfactory quality", "not as described", Consumer Rights Act 2015.


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