Service interval

Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Faults and Fixes
Past master
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Re: Service interval

Post by Past master » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:34 pm

Things don't change. I remember going in to a Bedford dealer in SE London (which is now a LR dealer on a different site) and while I waited at the counter as they dealt with the paperwork for another customer, the senior of the two staff said, in front of me, "Oh he's coming in with a blank cheque. Stick another hundred on the bill". Needless to say I checked my own bill very carefully and found another dealer (who wasn't much better).
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PhilMabbots17
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E-pace - history repeats itself

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:22 pm

Nearly 3 years after the first DS owners discovered this problem and nothing has changed...
Tracy4567 wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:45 pm
Hi
Wonder if anyone else has had the scheduled service due reminder on dash and app? So frustrated! Called dealer and told that because I only do short journeys it probably needs oil and filter change. REALLY? Surely it doesnt mean that every 5,ooo miles im going to have to pay out £307. Have booked car in for next week but im not convinced that the explanation i was given was accurate. Don't want to pay out unnecessarily.

Firenze red d180 s.
mrchiggles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:07 pm
Others on here have mentioned this as an issue - I for one will be on to Jaguar to complain if this happens to me - the advertised service intervals are what they are and at no point was I advised that shorter journeys would result in additional oil change costs
tecmic wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:45 am
No way! Service interval is 2 years or 21k miles for the diesel or 12 months and 16k for the petrol, innit? that's got to be a software bug.... get a different dealer's opinion.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/jaguar/e-pace ... costs-mpg/
Joweb wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:23 pm
My service message first came on at 2500 miles, garage turned it off and now it has popped back on at 4700 miles it's booked into the garage next week to investigate
Joweb wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:07 pm
Back from the garage after an oil and filter change, advised it was because I only do small journeys they have done it free on this occasion but have advised if it keeps happening (which it is expected to) it will be chargeable I've done 5000 miles since March and it's happened twice now! :roll:
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pistonbroker
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Re: Service interval

Post by pistonbroker » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:16 pm

Hi all, newbie here!

Guess what brought me here? Oil dilution of course!

Service due light came on just over a week ago, less than 7k miles. It's a March '18 150ps DS HSE.

Great car but today's shenanigans have rather soured things. As Phil predicts a few posts up, they say it's all down to my driving style so that will be £220 please. Grr!!

I'm collecting it in an hour and will get an indy to do it in the New Year instead. Apparently they've still cleaned it though!
MY18 DS ED4 HSE


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Re: Service interval

Post by clarnick » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:57 pm

I purchased my Discovery Sport TD4 180 from new some 12 Months ago. Within 5 Months, the Service Indicator came on. The car at that time had done approximately 3500 miles. An oil change was needed. I subsequently booked my car in and had the oil and filter changed in June of this year, over 8 weeks later at 4500 miles ( This was the earliest date available at my local dealer at the time) they found 10 % oil dilution and performed the required oil change

In November of this year, the service light came on again at 6500 miles indicating I needed another oil change. This oil change was again performed by the local dealer last week at 7300 miles with a 7.5% oil dilution value. Whilst I was told this oil change would be free ( As I have a Service Plan ) The dealer in question informed me that they would only perform another 3 max oil changes, under the plan. So in effect using up my service credits, by all accounts, rather than replacing the oil and filter under warranty?

Understandably I'm not particularly happy. As the dealer has indicated that they will start charging for this in the near future?

Whilst I do mostly suburban driving 90% of the time, my vehicle is used on the motorway around 10% of the time and at least once every 3 weeks I do a 40+ mile motorway journey, travelling on or near the max speed limit. I have also made additional unnecessary motorway journeys when the DPF regeneration warning has come on, which it does periodically.

However, this seems to have made very little difference, given the frequency of my oil changes. I've read a couple of technical articles which make interesting reading, Whilst I can't vouch for there authenticity, they appear to be professional engineering reports about the Landrover Discovery Sport and Evoque Diesel engines and include the specific DPF issue.

My understanding is that there is a serious design fault. The article states that the Diesel particulate filter has been placed a lot lower down the exhaust system in these models and is effectively far too far away from the engine to get hot enough to burn off and vaporise the soot during passive regeneration. Effectively resulting in oil contamination. Active regeneration only occurs when driving the car at high speed and realistically this can only be done whilst driving on a motorway regularly.

My understanding is that there is no actual fix, as far as I'm aware. Perhaps someone can otherwise confirm if this is correct or not?

Had I know about this issue, I would never have purchased the Discovery Sport. I was also given the sale literature, by Land Rover before I purchased, (Now withdrawn) that stated a 21000 mil service interval.

Interesting my local Land Rover dealer tried to get me to sign a disclaimer, when I last went in, to indicate that I'm fully aware of the DPF warning and how best I should drive my Vehicle?

Frankly, I found the whole thing quite bizarre and somewhat insulting, See attached document. Obviously, I declined to sign it and return it. Has anyone else been handed this document? Please see the attached. In all likelihood, I'll be speaking to Land Rover customer service in the very near future.

car2.jpg

car1.jpg

MY18 DS. SE TD4 180 Auto. Spare Wheel, front fog, rear camera, privacy glass, meridian sound and 2nd row USB. Corris grey.

Owned from new, November 2017. London


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Zedman
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Re: Service interval

Post by Zedman » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:33 am

The dealer can't even get the grammar right in the letter. Not much hope for the service department performing adequately! Maybe the engineers are not able to perform to a satisfactory level till the workshop has reached an acceptable temperature! :D
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Mamil
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Re: Service interval

Post by Mamil » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:29 am

clarnick wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:57 pm
I've read a couple of technical articles which make interesting reading, Whilst I can't vouch for there authenticity, they appear to be professional engineering reports about the Landrover Discovery Sport and Evoque Diesel engines and include the specific DPF issue.
Please do share. There's been a lot of theorising and some excellent amateur sleuthing by members of this forum, but I haven't seen anything of the kind you mentioned, and I'm sure many on here would be interested in it....
SE TD4, MY 2016.5, 110kw/150bhp 2.2 PSA Engine, Fuji White/Ebony, Oz towbar, xenon pack. Delivered 25th June 2016, Perth Western Australia.


pistonbroker
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Re: Service interval

Post by pistonbroker » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:30 am

During my Twitter ranting yesterday a chap I know who was contracted up until recently to JLR wondered whether the DPF was placed too far away from the engine to get hot enough. So that's not the first I've heard of it.

I've had an email from Keith Beards this morning, Corporate Executive Support at UK Customer Experience Center (sic) so I am now awaiting a more sensible response from Land Rover about this.

Fingers crossed!
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Mamil
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Re: Service interval

Post by Mamil » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:53 am

pistonbroker wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:30 am
During my Twitter ranting yesterday a chap I know who was contracted up until recently to JLR wondered whether the DPF was placed too far away from the engine to get hot enough. So that's not the first I've heard of it.
Yes, as I said, lots of theorising, and the DPF being too far from the engine is certainly the favourite so far, but was hoping to see the "professional engineering reports" referred to.
SE TD4, MY 2016.5, 110kw/150bhp 2.2 PSA Engine, Fuji White/Ebony, Oz towbar, xenon pack. Delivered 25th June 2016, Perth Western Australia.


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Re: Service interval

Post by Barnsh » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:11 pm

pistonbroker wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:30 am
During my Twitter ranting yesterday a chap I know who was contracted up until recently to JLR wondered whether the DPF was placed too far away from the engine to get hot enough. So that's not the first I've heard of it.

I've had an email from Keith Beards this morning, Corporate Executive Support at UK Customer Experience Center (sic) so I am now awaiting a more sensible response from Land Rover about this.

Fingers crossed!

Yes it’s a design flaw and no they won’t fix it any time soon , after all they’ve had 3 years now.

Long thread on DPF discussions here :

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7166

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7558&hilit=Smm

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=672

But at the end of the day even JLR stayed they are aware of this fault , but choose to blame driving style.

https://www.docdroid.net/KUMbEu2/2017-0 ... lution.pdf
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Re: Service interval

Post by PhilMabbots17 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:23 am

It's never going to be fixed. The accepted explanation is more than just a "theory", I might not be a professional automotive engineer but who needs to be? The company that produced it says it has "architecture and hardware" issues that cause it to require "higher than expected" post injection. There is a JLR DPF operation document describing in great detail how it should work (passive regeneration and active regeneration operating in concert), and then a letter from JLR explaining that it doesn't work as it should because, in practical use (normal driving), there's actually no passive regeneration going on due to the exhaust temperature being "too low". This explains the need for more frequent active regenerations. We have Johnson Matthey scientific papers on the temperature profiles required for their coatings to passively and actively regenerate and we have their soot loading and timing experiments in a paper presented to a US government body. Their timings for longer soot burning with SCRF coatings tie in with JLR's admission that active regenerations take longer on the DS and Evoque which is the principal reason for extended regenerations leading to a higher chance of one being interrupted by the driver ending their journey. The forum has recorded scientific oil sample data. There is a convincing record of poor service mileage. All of these information sources tie together into a continuous narrative in which there is absolutely no inconsistency. The exhaust is faulty: it causes premature oil dilution and other damage because it never gets hot enough to deal with the soot properly no matter how hard the car is driven.

JLR have a huge amount at stake in this, now well into the hundreds of millions. It is a major contributory factor to explain the reduced income streams from the diesel versions of the company's two most popular models (sales of which are down by a third). If they could have disproved this explanation, wouldn't they have done so by now? If they could have fixed it, wouldn't they have done so by now? It continues to cost them massively in lost sales and rejections, not to mention all the oil, filters and other parts and labour required to fix cars out in the field. If any organisation had what it took to eliminate these costs and repair the damage to its reputation by providing an alternative explanation, it would have been JLR. Over the past THREE YEARS they've had every opportunity to do something about this appalling mess and yet - nothing. Nothing has been done because, as suggested months ago on here, nothing can be done without a very expensive, complete redesign. Now, with £2.5 billion of cuts coming, the remote prospect of that ever happening has presumably just evaporated.

If you're in the market for a new SUV and like the DS's other great features, I suggest buying a petrol version, just prepare yourself for a return to 1980s fuel economy. Personally I shall be waiting until next year and upgrading the GLC to a diesel with a properly designed exhaust system.
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