Would you be an early adopter?

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Re: Would you be an early adopter?

Post by Paul41 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:15 pm

Well that’s one reason for not having a Smart charger at home & smart meter maybe, Smart charging outlets are the only type available with the £350 government grant and can be controlled remotely, I am going to install a simple 7.2kw charging point with no WiFi connection, available via Amazon. These will eventually be banned I expect as big brother wants to be able to control virtually everything we do. Charging at home can be as low as 7 pence per KWH on an E7 tariff hence a full charge of 15kwh would cost around £1.05 + 5% VAT, so assuming all of your mileage generally is done on electric then the cost difference for comparison for diesel assuming you get 35miles for both fuels is electric at £1.11 and premium diesel at approx £6.14 per gallon (1.35 per ltr) saving £5.03, if most of your journeys are short you’re not going to get 35mpg from cold with diesel and likely below 20mpg with petrol hence the cost savings are far greater with electric.
At the end of the day it all depends on the type of journeys you typically do. I do realise there are other factors that need to be considered for the electric range like cold weather and the preconditioning prior to using a PHEV but these factors also apply to petrol & diesel When starting from cold but I won’t have to worry about DPFs etc nor wasting fuel on DPF regen trips.
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Re: Would you be an early adopter?

Post by HmmmUK » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:04 pm

I wish LR would go full EV on some vehicles.

With PHEVs I can't help wondering if those that do short trips (lots of people just go and pick a paper up) on EV only will have issues as the ICE hasn't had to fire up in yonks? Also if you are mostly using EV by choice and the ICE kicks in from cold at higher speeds then if this likely to cause issues/wear?

I'm sure it will be all ok, I'm just thinking out loud...
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Re: Would you be an early adopter?

Post by VeryDiscoSport » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:09 am

Clubman wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:33 am
Just to throw some light on the so called Toyota HSD, they Toyota infringed on two patents of a small US company Paice LLC , Toyota lost the ensuing court case, and so had to pay for licensing, as did Ford

Hybrid Synergy Drive definitely belongs to Toyota, although it appears that the general idea it employs might not. I believe that the case to which you refer was ultimately settled out of court before Toyota's final appeal to the Supreme Court could be heard. The terms of the agreement remain confidential.

Thank you for your post because it has opened the door onto a most interesting story which I knew nothing about until yesterday.

It appears that Alex J. Severinsky, a Russian, deserves credit for the invention of hybrid power trains which employ a "controllable torque transfer unit" (this is unmistakably the class definition of a Power-Split Device). In the so-called '970 patent' filed in 1994 he described how an ICE and electric motor/generators might be combined to improve vehicle efficiency in mixed driving. Severinsky teamed up with Lockheed Martin and four years later, in October 1999, Paice demonstrated a prototype of its "Hyperdrive" system to a number of leading car manufacturers at Roush Industries’ testing facilities in Michigan. A Cadillac DeVille's V8 engine was replaced with a 4 cylinder petrol engine connected to the prototype hybrid drive on a dynonometer. The onlookers watched fascinated as the fuel economy increased from 24 mpg to 44 mpg without any loss of performance. (source: About Paice LLC)
Sept 1994 - US Patent - US5343970A

An improved hybrid electric vehicle includes an internal combustion engine and an electric motor. Both the motor and the engine provide torque to drive the vehicle directly through a controllable torque transfer unit. Typically at low speeds or in traffic, the electric motor alone drives the vehicle, using power stored in batteries; under acceleration and during hill climbing both the engine and the motor provide torque to drive the vehicle; and in steady state highway cruising, the internal combustion engine alone drives the vehicle. The internal combustion engine is sized to operate at or near its maximum fuel efficiency during highway cruising. The motor is operable as a generator to charge the batteries as needed and also for regenerative braking. No transmission is employed. The motor operates at significantly lower currents and higher voltages than conventionally and has a rated power at least equal to that of the internal combustion engine. In this manner a cost efficient vehicle is provided, suffering no performance disadvantage compared to conventional vehicles.
Toyota didn't need to be at the Michegan demonstration because by 1999 it had already been been working independently for seven years to develop and bring to market a practical, low-emission hybrid family vehicle. In fact, Toyota claims that it began research two years before Severinsky filed his '907 patent' (source Official Toyota Blog). Toyota debuted their hybrid concept car at the Tokyo Motor Show in 1995, with testing following a year later. The first Prius sales were made in 1997 and later that year it won Japanese Car of the Year Award. A year later it added the Automotive Researchers' and Journalists' Conference Car of the Year Award to the trophy cabinet. So, by the time of Severinsky's demonstration in Michegan, Toyota had already been selling the Prius for 2 years.
[sources: (1) Taylor, Alex (24 February 2006). "The Birth of the Prius". Fortune. US. Retrieved 16 October 2020, (2) Toyoland Chronology]

Toyota doesn't claim credit for making the world's first hybrid car, just for making and distributing the world’s first mass-produced petrol-electric hybrid vehicle. Toyota says it was the first manufacturer to overcome the numerous technical and engineering issues necessary to bring this powertrain into mass production. Primary among these was the need to increase the longevity of the high-voltage battery to match that of the rest of the car’s components.

In 2010, after a four year legal tussle, Paice LLC and Toyota settled their differences out of court before Toyota's ultimate appeal could be heard at The Supreme Court. By that time Paice LLC was out of the engineering business and operating firmly under the control of a philanthropic non-profit called the Abell Foundation. Spurred on by its (presumed) financial success with Toyota Paice/Abell then set about attacking the rest of the hybrid automobile manufacturers. They've made a lot of money by doing so.

Toyota 2010 - http://www.paicehybrid.com/toyota-paice ... -disputes/
Hyundai/Kia 2015 https://www.hybridcars.com/hybrid-paten ... and-paice/
VW Audi Porsche 2017 - http://www.paicehybrid.com/paice-settle ... e-patents/
Ford - 2018 - http://www.paicehybrid.com/3058-2/
Honda - 2018 https://taas.news/article/105421/Honda_ ... Foundation
BMW - 2019 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bmw-face ... 00198.html
Daimler 2020 - http://www.paicehybrid.com/paice-abell- ... echnology/
Mitsubishi 2020 - https://www.bloomberg.com/press-release ... aice-abell

A cynic might accuse Abell of exploiting its ownership of patents which consist of nothing more than verbal descriptions and sketches supported by a single proof-of-concept prototype. By virtue of their wide-ranging, generic descriptions, the Abell patents encapsulate literally all the HEV applications currently in production. Having scanned a couple, it's difficult to see how any manufacturer they decide to go after would be able to mount an effective defence against allegations of copying. BMW is making noises suggesting that it will be the exception but it remains to be seen what the outcome will be. Abell hasn't lost so far.

On the other hand Abell is not doing this for profit, but to raise money for its extensive charitable work: the amounts being raised are not insignificant. Hyundai/Kia coughed up almost $29 million, for example. So we should say good luck to Abel, then?

The BMW case is ongoing and hinges on three alleged patent infringements. BMW says it plans to defend its actions but my money would be on another out-of-court settlement. Ultimately, if they reach a per-car licence deal, the amount involved will be cheaper than the costs of a drawn out legal wrangle.


Whatever happens next with vehicle powertrains, Alex J Severinsky has clearly left an indelible mark on the automotive industry. He's still associated with the University of Maryland where he is the visiting Professor of Mechanical Engineering.

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