Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Faults and Fixes
dcgubbins
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by dcgubbins » Wed May 29, 2019 10:19 pm

got my Disco back after a second balance shaft replacement. Apparently, the second attempt uses a different balance shaft part?.
Does anyone know the difference?

The reason I ask is that since getting the car back I am sure the engine is louder than before?
(and to think, I purchased a brand new car for peace of mind) :roll:


Past master
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Past master » Wed May 29, 2019 10:59 pm

They will have reset the driving parameters. It may be revving a bit more until it gets used to your" driving style". Plus they may have done an upgrade. I'm sure that mine revs higher since the last update.
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Chris b
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Chris b » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:16 pm

Mine is confirmed as balance shaft and I'm booked in for next Tuesday and Wednesday (warned may not be able to pick up until Thursday but will have a loan car). New balance shafts and bearings come as an assembly and the part number is now different from before so "something" is different (maybe not cheap Chinese bearings?).
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Chris b
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Chris b » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:56 pm

All done! Humming nice and quietly under the bonnet.
Took it in Tuesday at 9; they started on it by 10 and it was road testing at 1:30 Wednesday.
I asked to look at the old shafts when I collected the car and there was some marking of the needles but not drastic (IMHO) but enough to make the distress of the bearings apparent. New parts fitted to latest spec so we'll see how it goes. I'll try and keep the revs down for a while to let things bed in.
19MY 2.0 HSE Manual. FIrenze+Corris roof, black headlining & grey 18" wheels
Gone:
2015 DS 2.0 HSE Manual 59k miles
2x Freelander 2 XS 09MY &13MY
G4 Discovery 2 (Tangiers Orange)
2x Discovery XS Tdi '97 Co. car then own '98


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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by VeryDiscoSport » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:41 am

Chris b wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:56 pm
All done! Humming nice and quietly under the bonnet.
Took it in Tuesday at 9; they started on it by 10 and it was road testing at 1:30 Wednesday.
I asked to look at the old shafts when I collected the car and there was some marking of the needles but not drastic (IMHO) but enough to make the distress of the bearings apparent. New parts fitted to latest spec so we'll see how it goes. I'll try and keep the revs down for a while to let things bed in.
The key behaviour to avoid is pushing the start button and driving away immediately as if you are late for your own wedding. Once the oil is warm and has reached all the nooks and cranny's you'll not harm a roller bearing with high rpm, even a new one. In any case, running in "ran out" years ago once machining tolerances moved into the 21st century (see The Micron Factory).

If I still had a diesel DS I'd quietly syphon out the oil while no-one was looking and replace it with some Castrol Edge 5W-30 Titanium, Total Quartz Ineo 5W-30 or similar high-performance 30 weight. Even on our coldest winter morning in the UK this won't hurt anything but such oils provide better shear strength (vital for a diesel) and retain better viscosity at 100 degrees C, which is almost certainly where most of the damage from post injection and poor lubrication is occurring,
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Chris b
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Chris b » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:12 pm

Thanks for your thoughts but why replace 0W-30 Professional Castrol Edge with a thicker one? The thinner cold oil will have better chance of getting to the nooks and crannies from cold. Point noted though, I usually set off fairly gently due to the nature of the roads near home and my mechanical sympathy!
As part of the balance shaft change, the dealer had to drain and refill sump with fresh oil which saved me as I was about to do a mid-point change at 11000 miles anyway! 😀 I will save my JLR-spec Shell Helix for another time.
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by VeryDiscoSport » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:45 pm

Chris b wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:12 pm
Thanks for your thoughts but why replace 0W-30 Professional Castrol Edge with a thicker one?
It's a good question. Basically it boils down to this. Oil analysis of wear metals shows that the standard oil becomes too thin when exposed to the effects of I) prolonged and intense periods of post injection and ii) excessive diesel dilution . Starting off with a more robust SAE-30 oil might slow down the engine wear and even check the dilution itself by resisting adsorption effects, thus keeping the oil in grade between oil changes.

JLR decided that the Ingenium diesel requires an SAE-30 oil with 9.3< Viscosity<12.5 cSt at 100 deg C. The standard oil has been formulated by Castrol to STJLR.03.5003 and it starts off with a working viscosity of 9.7 cSt. This makes it ideal for applications where there is little or no dilution, i.e. Jaguar XE/XF Ingenium 2.0L TD4, but anything over 1.5% diesel dilution takes it down a grade to SAE-20. Our oil analysis suggests that post-N289 the 2.0L diesels will spend 70% of their time running on oil that is technically 0W-20. You would invalidate your warranty if you filled the sump with it.

When I put this anomalous consequence of the "higher than expected" diesel dilution to MD Jeremy Hicks and Service Director Andrew West they refused to answer my questions. When I put the question in writing to the company via the Executive Office the official reply was: "JLR's 2.0L Ingenium diesel engine has been specifically engineered using the highest of quality [sic] engine oils, to operate at much higher levels of oil dilution." It's not a very convincing answer and I reasoned that they had a vested interest in down-playing the significance of diluted oil.

When I put the same questions to Castrol, their reply via email had been more enlightening.
3.4% seems rather high and will cause viscosity drop due to dilution of the diesel (diesel is basically a very thin base oil ). It could be that this engine isn’t getting up to temperature and is doing lots of DPF regenerations which causes fuel dilution. The ASTM viscosity standards suggests an XW-30 grade can be from 9.3 – 12.5 cSt @ 100 ( the C1 is 9.7 nominal ) where the XW-20 grade can be between 5.6 and 9.3 so yes, the viscosity measured at 8.8 puts the oil below a xW-30 grade which would also support dilution

I would suggest that above 2% fuel dilution is excessive and will result in decreased viscosity, oil degradation, loss of dispersancy, and loss of oxidation stability which affects the ability of the oil to lubricate properly – especially long term. With the above conclusions in mind from the oil analysis also agree that the oil should be changed and to take the car for longer runs to keep DPF hot to help prevent fuel dilution.

Advanced Technical Support
Castrol Automotive and Industrial Lubricants

11th July 2017
When the oil was originally specified, JLR didn't expect it to have to endure extended periods of use above 6% dilution, nor with viscosity as low as 8.2 cSt. In fact, as shown by JLRP00100, some of the JLR engineers were seriously concerned about anything over 6% and predicted that engine failures would occur. Some have literally exploded, probably as a direct result of high dilution and reduced viscosity: see Bizarre catastrophic Failure of Car! for one of several cases that have been recorded.

If I had one of these cars today I would be doing everything in my power to protect the expensive engine from wearing out prematurely. It is only my opinion, but I believe that engines which are losing, on average, nearly 2 grams of iron every 12,000 miles, are showing the signs of premature ageing. I think trying a more robust oil is worth a shot with little to lose and potentially much to gain.
2017 DS L-550 2.0 SE Tech 150 6 SPD (Rejected per CRA 2015) :(
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corrisman
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by corrisman » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:34 pm

My 2018 DS HSE Auto Diesel (9000 miles) was making a grinding noise from the engine - related to road speed not engine revs. It only happened under acceleration and always stopped when you lifted off but was gradually getting worse. Called Land Rover Assist and they came promptly and advised it had to go into a dealer.
Update today is that they are replacing balance shafts - it has made a whistling noise since I got it as an Approved Used (7000 miles) - I had just assumed this was the noise an Ingenium made!
Any suggestions as to what my original noise is due to - Land Rover Assist jacked up the car and spun the wheels by hand in neutral and there was no noise so not a stone in a brake disc etc. ??
MY18 DS HSE Auto
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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Robsters » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:52 pm

So I was in the garage picking up my car again, thinking of moving in and renting out my house 🤔 anyway, I over heard the service desk talking to a customer about his balance shafts needing changed (sound familiar) the chap asked why do they need changed, I wanted to jump in and shout oil dilution 😂😂 their reply was, it’s not common for them to go wrong 🤣🤣🤣 how long will LR get away with sweeping all these issues under the carpet! Hope the poor chap was under warranty.
First time LR owner, I have joined more forums than I care to remember over the years from Volvo, VW, Mazda, Peugeot, Ford, Vauxhall, Fiat and probably others!!
Bye bye Volvo XC90 hello Land Rover Discovery Sport 180 d HSE 2016


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Re: Engine replacing Balance Shaft

Post by Careless » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:37 pm

evening all, thought i'd join the party, disco sport landmark new sept 2018, developed a whine at about 5000 miles, booked in with the dealer (6 week wait time), diagnosed as balancing shaft, back in next tuesday 3rd september for replacement

reading the various forums on this, it's not uncommon for this to re-occur. I suppose there is little chance of rejecting the vehicle at this stage, but any advice very welcome


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