DPF Fault !!!!!

Faults and Technical chat for the Discovery Sport
Chippy
Posts: 5686
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:29 pm
Location: Germany.

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Chippy » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:15 pm

What do you think LR would do to a supplier who couldn’t or wouldn’t document material flows for product he supplied to them. They’d be down on him like a ton of bricks and rightly so.

I guess we’ll never know what they are hiding but hiding something they surely are.
Evoque MY18 TD4 SE 180hp. Loire Blue.
DS MY17 (Rejected B pillar ticking). Aintree Green.
DS MY16 (Rejected B pillar ticking). Corris Grey.


NoDiscoSport
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:57 am

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by NoDiscoSport » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:47 pm

Chippy wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:15 pm
I guess we’ll never know what they are hiding but hiding something they surely are.
Say there are two drivers, whose cars "X" and "Y", need a service at the same time, but for quite different reasons as illustrated by the Boston Box below. For argument's sake, let's say the majority (90%) are "Y" cars. Here's the clever bit. The possibility that there are some "X" cars in the sample allows JLR to legitimately deflect attention towards those few "poorly driven" vehicles. The SSM disclosure, coupled with the lack of a build list, keeps everyone else in the dark about the actual proportion and perhaps that's the idea. If it was the other way round and there were only 9,000 DS vehicles to fix, wouldn't it be a great piece of PR to announce a program to get them properly repaired rather than wait for problems to occur???

SCRF - Copy.JPG

17MY DS150PS 6 speed manual. Gone. Not of satisfactory quality. Not as described.


melbmelb
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:41 am

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by melbmelb » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:17 pm

scrf wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:31 am
convenient that they are not on the forum, the forum shows an Australian trend

Sadly repeated short low speed journeys will clog particulate filters on any modern diesel car, they all have hardware and architecture.
Not sure what you mean there. I'm in Australia and am drafting a letter of demand right now. The dealers are keen to baffle us with bull, if I wasn't a persistent and annoying person I would probably just continue taking the car to the dealership every two weeks to have them fix things while they blame my "driving style". We have had the amber warning 3 times in a month and the red lamp as well.


Barnsh
Posts: 5296
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: South East

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Barnsh » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:42 pm

melbmelb wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:17 pm
scrf wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:31 am
convenient that they are not on the forum, the forum shows an Australian trend

Sadly repeated short low speed journeys will clog particulate filters on any modern diesel car, they all have hardware and architecture.
Not sure what you mean there. I'm in Australia and am drafting a letter of demand right now. The dealers are keen to baffle us with bull, if I wasn't a persistent and annoying person I would probably just continue taking the car to the dealership every two weeks to have them fix things while they blame my "driving style". We have had the amber warning 3 times in a month and the red lamp as well.
Do you guys use the ACCC , might be worth asking them if you've not done so?
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consu ... guarantees

PS
I think the comment by Scrf is aimed at me because of the fact I help folks in the uk with rejection that aren't on this forum.
This issue affects owners in both the uk and Australia .
My18 FPace, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


melbmelb
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:41 am

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by melbmelb » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:02 pm

Do you guys use the ACCC , might be worth asking them if you've not done so?
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consu ... guarantees

PS
I think the comment by Scrf is aimed at me because of the fact I help folks in the uk with rejection that aren't on this forum.
This issue affects owners in both the uk and Australia .
The ACCC is in this space yes. But I plan to write them a polite letter, then a really aggressive letter and file a claim with a solicitor in small claims (VCAT) shortly after.

If you have any tips for rejection feel free to share...


Barnsh
Posts: 5296
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: South East

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Barnsh » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:59 pm

melbmelb wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:02 pm
Do you guys use the ACCC , might be worth asking them if you've not done so?
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consu ... guarantees

PS
I think the comment by Scrf is aimed at me because of the fact I help folks in the uk with rejection that aren't on this forum.
This issue affects owners in both the uk and Australia .
The ACCC is in this space yes. But I plan to write them a polite letter, then a really aggressive letter and file a claim with a solicitor in small claims (VCAT) shortly after.

If you have any tips for rejection feel free to share...
One case was able to have their DPF replaced free, where initially the dealer wanted them to pay £1500. This came down to an email from CRC (landrover Customer Relations) stating that the Amber warning light on the vehicle was only visible to the driver for 2.1 seconds.This warning was considered insufficient as it could easily be missed by a driver concentrating on the road.
Basically they never saw the Amber light it went straight to Red, JLR said they were going to do further investigation on this light issue. So if yours went to Red without seeing Amber you may have a similar issue.

The important point here is all this data about warning signs, how long they showed for is all contained in the vehicles systems. Along with any fault codes.

They have since successfully rejected their vehicle ,

The best method so far has been getting as much information from your dealership on exactly what they have found (including any fault codes ) and data held about the SCRF (DPF) system on the car and get them to put it in writing to you.

Another person took their vehicle to a diesel specialist and had the system examined and tested. This showed up faulty under test for pressure leaks. The dealer said they had tested for leaks and it was ok / passed the test.They rejected as they were in the first 6 months of ownership, and the dealer had already had one attempt at repair. (UK Consumer law)

It's very easy for dealers to just say "it's your driving style" without doing full checks .
So it's worth getting a detailed technical write up, on what hey have found and what they have done. In any case if they don't provide this it won't look good on them if a solicitor steps in.After all it's your car your entitled to know what they did.

Also
It may well be down to driving style , diesels don't like short runs , they need a good blast on a long run now and again to burn and clear out the soot in the filter. But it is worth investigating what the dealer has found and done and as mentioned above in posts, does your vehicle have one of the faulty boxes marked with FB, has the dealer checked?

Misselling is hard to prove as it's your word against the dealers. In the UK under our Consumer Rights Act 2015 " the vehicle must be "fit for any purpose made know at the time of sale" . So if you told them you just do short runs then this may be another avenue to explore.

I suspect your ACCC wil point you to the Oz equivalent of these uk laws.
My18 FPace, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


Barnsh
Posts: 5296
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: South East

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Barnsh » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:14 pm

NoDiscoSport wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:47 pm
Chippy wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:15 pm
I guess we’ll never know what they are hiding but hiding something they surely are.
Say there are two drivers, whose cars "X" and "Y", need a service at the same time, but for quite different reasons as illustrated by the Boston Box below. For argument's sake, let's say the majority (90%) are "Y" cars. Here's the clever bit. The possibility that there are some "X" cars in the sample allows JLR to legitimately deflect attention towards those few "poorly driven" vehicles. The SSM disclosure, coupled with the lack of a build list, keeps everyone else in the dark about the actual proportion and perhaps that's the idea. If it was the other way round and there were only 9,000 DS vehicles to fix, wouldn't it be a great piece of PR to announce a program to get them properly repaired rather than wait for problems to occur???

SCRF - Copy.JPG
I think JLR would have three scenarios:

A) spend the couple of weeks and identify all those that need replacement and replace them.
Cost = number affected X £1500.......good PR

B) They already know how many are affected but will only replace on "breakage"
Cost = number affected complainants X £1500......poor PR and some customer dissatisfaction

C) They really have no idea how many are affected ???
My18 FPace, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


melbmelb
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:41 am

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by melbmelb » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:48 am

It may well be down to driving style , diesels don't like short runs , they need a good blast on a long run now and again to burn and clear out the soot in the filter. But it is worth investigating what the dealer has found and done and as mentioned above in posts, does your vehicle have one of the faulty boxes marked with FB, has the dealer checked?

Misselling is hard to prove as it's your word against the dealers. In the UK under our Consumer Rights Act 2015 " the vehicle must be "fit for any purpose made know at the time of sale" . So if you told them you just do short runs then this may be another avenue to explore.
It's a combination of driving style and real faults. I.e. a complete forced regen/then replacement of components followed by an amber lamp 30 miles later. This in itself could be repaired - although they have tried twice unsuccessfully.

Misselling - I get your point but it comes down to two of us testifying on oath that they assured us the car was suitable for our style of driving with no highway driving. There were other issues in the sale process which I won't list here...obviously it's not straightforward though.

I don't have to win in court, just - "just" - convince them before that that swapping us out to a petrol equivalent is best all round. Which will be relatively easy if they fail to get the DPF functioning at all this week.


Barnsh
Posts: 5296
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: South East

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Barnsh » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:12 am

melbmelb wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:48 am
It may well be down to driving style , diesels don't like short runs , they need a good blast on a long run now and again to burn and clear out the soot in the filter. But it is worth investigating what the dealer has found and done and as mentioned above in posts, does your vehicle have one of the faulty boxes marked with FB, has the dealer checked?

Misselling is hard to prove as it's your word against the dealers. In the UK under our Consumer Rights Act 2015 " the vehicle must be "fit for any purpose made know at the time of sale" . So if you told them you just do short runs then this may be another avenue to explore.
It's a combination of driving style and real faults. I.e. a complete forced regen/then replacement of components followed by an amber lamp 30 miles later. This in itself could be repaired - although they have tried twice unsuccessfully.

Misselling - I get your point but it comes down to two of us testifying on oath that they assured us the car was suitable for our style of driving with no highway driving. There were other issues in the sale process which I won't list here...obviously it's not straightforward though.

I don't have to win in court, just - "just" - convince them before that that swapping us out to a petrol equivalent is best all round. Which will be relatively easy if they fail to get the DPF functioning at all this week.
The mix between faults and driving style is the hardest to prove or disprove , but a chronological list of dates faults reported with actions taken by the dealer is the best way of showing the impact on the vehicle. This coupled with the dealers version of faults and fixes can then be contested if required.
As with all the UK cases ( and I suspect same in Australia) decisions are all evidence based and use facts only. It's having the ability to contest the facts that are in your favour , even if it is only your word against theirs in cases such as misselling.
My18 FPace, BRG, R Sport, Auto. 18 way mem Seats, ActiveLED, PrivGlass, ICTP, blis, cooled gloves, spare.
MY17 HSE 180 gone
My16.5 DS 180 b pillar tick ~ rejected :oops:
My16 DS 180 ~ rejected :oops:


Chippy
Posts: 5686
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:29 pm
Location: Germany.

Re: DPF Fault !!!!!

Post by Chippy » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:33 am

Barnsh, you've forgotten scenario D) which is my favourite - they don't actually care because whatever they do it's going to cost them. I'm sorry if I seem excessively negative but I genuinely do believe it.
Evoque MY18 TD4 SE 180hp. Loire Blue.
DS MY17 (Rejected B pillar ticking). Aintree Green.
DS MY16 (Rejected B pillar ticking). Corris Grey.


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