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Security Advice

114K views 205 replies 45 participants last post by  Barnsh 
#1 ·
Thanks to Barnsh for alerting me to another spate of LR Keyless thefts http://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/spate_of_land_rover_thefts_in_radlett_1_4561910 I thought it may be good idea to post a sticky with the Police advice to help protect your pride and Joy :(

I have highlighted those which will cost you nothing and I feel are particularly important from all the forums and research I have done :cool:

Crime prevention advice

Never hand vehicle keys over to a third party or leave the vehicle unattended at a valet parking, car wash or other parking places, where criminals can gain access to the vehicle and code a key electronically.

• Consider fitting an 'OBD safe' device, a secure lockable device that fits over the vehicle's on board diagnostic port, in the vehicle cabin. This prevents criminals using software to code a key from the vehicle. Devices that are Thatcham approved can be obtained from http://www.tieronevehiclesolutions.com.

If your vehicle has a keyless entry system ensure you place the vehicle tablet key in your home address, as far away from the vehicle as possible, ideally place the key in a metal box.

• Consider fitting a dual band tracking device that works on VHF/UHF and GPS, to ensure that one tracking system is still functioning if criminals use GPS blocking techniques to avoid detection. Devices approved by Thatcham and Secured by Design help to combat this type of vehicle theft, as vehicles equipped with a tracking device are often promptly recovered.

Criminals can also employ remote/keyless entry jamming equipment so make sure your car is locked by trying the door before leaving it.

Ensure that 'home' on your vehicle's sat nav is shown as the post code of your local police station and not your actual home address.

If advertising your vehicle for sale online, ensure that the registration number is not displayed when photographed to avoid cloning of its identity
 
#3 ·
I couldn't agree more Chippy :cool:
 
#5 ·
Bikes get stolen too but normally replaced new for old unlike £40k+ LRs ;)
 
#7 ·
Point 5 is particularly relevant to those who use remote buttons rather than keyless entry - using a fobgaurd will stop DS unlocking when you test with keyless :cool:
 
#9 ·
I've bought a faraday cage bag for the keys, you can get them cheap off amazon they're designed for mobile phones to block reception. I tried it with the key right next to the door handle and keyless entry didn't work.
 
#10 ·
I have purchased this off amazon and it works well - £9.99 for 3 is a small price to pay IMHO :cool:



https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QIEX04K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It has 2 pockets - 1 is unshielded which I will use when unlocking and driving to keep smart key visible the other is shielded which will be used to protect my key when locked and leaving the vehicle unattended :mrgreen:

It's a bit bulkier than necessary but it can be folded in half and the price is right :D
 
#11 ·
Now .... this is all very interesting ..... but, can any-one explain to me how this affects my key fob. We don;t have key-less on the SE Tech ..... you have to manually press the button to unlock/lock ..... so is my fob vulnerable, too .....???

Pete
 
#13 ·
Pete the problem you have is the range when you press a button is further than the smart key and can be jammed so you think vehicles locked but it isn't - the scumbags then help themselves to your contents or programme a key and drive away without the alarm sounding - this is why Police advice is to check the door is locked and never assume it is when you press the button :(

Not exactly sure if this is still the case but they also used to be able to capture the signal from nearby when you pressed the button on fob and then unlock after you left, etc :?

This information has been discussed for many years on LR forums and opinion was the keyless entry was more secure because of the low range of Fob. However because of the constant signal needed for this to work advice is now to shield keys due to relay attack boosting signal to the vehicle hence the pouch :geek:
 
#15 ·
Does anyone have any actual reports of a DS being stolen in this way yet? Not heard of it and all the stories online are about other (older models) from the Land Rover range, most specifically the Range Rover Sport.

AFAIK, it's not possible to programme a new key via the OBD port, and the range of the keyless system for locking/unlocking is about 2 feet from the car, so unless the thief can get within that range of the key, they can't use this method to unlock the car. Pressing the button is probably less secure as the range of the transmission is much further, so it can be blocked and intercepted. Doing so only gives access to the car though, not the ability to drive away. My understanding is that to programme a new key, you have to change the entire key module, which is buried under the dash, and thieves aren't going to start taking the car to pieces to change that.

There are far easier targets out there for the thieves (like the RRS, unfortunately for owners of those!).

Or maybe I'm missing something...?
 
#16 ·
I'm still active on other LR forums and it's not just older models and definitely not just RRS

In the last month I have seen posts concerning a Porsche, a D4 and a few RR taken all with keyless entry and the keys were a lot further away than 2ft away

I have seen the equipment used via pm to access OBD or Canbus and clone keys even with newer KVM which is supposed to be read only and to trick the vehicle into believing the key is present so they can open and start the engine

I too think the DS is probably less attractive to steal due to the lower price but £40k is still more attractive than a Defender worth £10k but they steal them too

If the Police are advising to keep these keys in tins or shielded pouch that's good enough for me
 
#17 ·
I succombed and bought the the last "pack of three " Muddy. :oops:

Looks better and certainly more practical than the Bacofoil I have been using.

Andrew
 
#18 ·
Think I must have nabbed the second to last then :)

BB
 
#19 ·
Yes it looks better than this :oops:

Rectangle Wood Font Glass Transparent material
 

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#20 ·
I've been looking into this in preparation for our new DS arriving in a few weeks' time - I can deal with the situation while we're out and about, but I'm looking for an elegant solution for while we're home with the car parked on the driveway. I figure it's best to fit something to our existing habits rather than trying to change habits, much more likely to succeed this way.

So, to fit our existing habits, has anyone come across something like a decent metal construction RF shielded key box? It seems to me that would be just about ideal - we can replace the existing hook board where we hang keys with a box, everything's safe when the door is closed, and nobody has to remember to keep putting the keys in individual bags (or the microwave ... or fridge ...).

I'm thinking of something a bit like this: http://www.screwfix.com/p/20-hook-key-cabinet-safe/13599. I could take the paint off around the edges of the door and the cabinet, then fit a conductive gasket to give it the full electrical closure needed, but if there's something out there already that will save the effort (and hence stand a chance of being ready before the car arrives!) that would be useful.

What are other people doing to protect against LF amplification attacks for cars parked at home? Or ... am I being paranoid?
 
#21 ·
I'd worry about hanging up your keys in an obvious(?) place. They break into the house nowadays to steal the keys. Happened to a mate of mine. They also found the key to his gun cabinet, but couldn't be bothered to take his genuine 1916 rifle! Much easier to steal the keys than to clone them, and if the car is on your drive then they know where you live!
 
#22 ·
Thankfully mine is parked on a downhill so nobodies going to push that out onto the street before starting it :) and my house was built 1957 so has very thick walls.

I would worry more when you are out at the local Tesco with blockers and the like, especially as they know how long they have to get away and noise isn't an issue.
 
#23 ·
townandcountry said:
I've been looking into this in preparation for our new DS arriving in a few weeks' time - I can deal with the situation while we're out and about, but I'm looking for an elegant solution for while we're home with the car parked on the driveway. I figure it's best to fit something to our existing habits rather than trying to change habits, much more likely to succeed this way.

So, to fit our existing habits, has anyone come across something like a decent metal construction RF shielded key box? It seems to me that would be just about ideal - we can replace the existing hook board where we hang keys with a box, everything's safe when the door is closed, and nobody has to remember to keep putting the keys in individual bags (or the microwave ... or fridge ...).

I'm thinking of something a bit like this: http://www.screwfix.com/p/20-hook-key-cabinet-safe/13599. I could take the paint off around the edges of the door and the cabinet, then fit a conductive gasket to give it the full electrical closure needed, but if there's something out there already that will save the effort (and hence stand a chance of being ready before the car arrives!) that would be useful.

What are other people doing to protect against LF amplification attacks for cars parked at home? Or ... am I being paranoid?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=fob+guard&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=164990215648&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2307805524032573809&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006976&hvtargid=kwd-155373960036&ref=pd_sl_2cu57x5rn0_e
 
#24 ·
Past master said:
... They break into the house nowadays to steal the keys.
Absolutely, but at the point they have broken in the insurance kicks in without any argument. I don't fancy trying to explain to them how there's no forced entry to the house, I still have both keys, but I appear to be missing one whole car. As it happens the keys are not visible from outside the house but are close to the front door - there's a conflict between home insurance, which requires doors to be locked with keys withdrawn, and fire safety advice which suggests a clear and straightforward exit route.

depicus said:
I would worry more when you are out at the local Tesco with blockers and the like
I agree - blocking the lock in any location is a concern. We always listen for the clunk and look for the flash when locking and I'm figuring we're going to have to use RF sleeves like the ones Muddywheels posted earlier in the thread if we want to cover the final gap while we're out and about.

I find it frustrating that this is somewhere where convenience has come at such a cost. Surely it wouldn't have been at all difficult to put a slide switch down the side of the key to disable the keyless functionality?
 
#26 ·
I found the shielded pouch didn't cost much and at home or when parking was very little inconvenience for extra peace of mind

My uncle had a classic Jag and kept keys on hall table until someone entered via front door and took keys - car was never seen again - if they'd not been visible he would probably still have it

I agree if someone really wants it they'll find a way but is the DS really that desirable someone would go to great lengths and risk getting caught

Strangely the Mitsubishi key still works while in pouch but hardly think anyone is going to nick it although I don't leave anything valuable inside just in case they can open it

I heard the other day Tesla front boot shouldn't be used to store valuables as it can be opened easily without key - unfortunately lots of customers didn't know
 
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