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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was thinking of having my HSE 4SD chipped. Has anyone had this done by their LR dealer and if so, what is your experience. Also, what about the three-year warranty? Does it still apply to tuned engines (if this is done by LR)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ccomley said:
Er, just out of interest, why?
Good question. I had never considered it before, but read here that someone had done it. Just interested in whether there is much difference. I think can be enhanced to about 240 BHP from 190.
 

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discosportdisaster said:
ccomley said:
Er, just out of interest, why?
Good question. I had never considered it before, but read here that someone had done it. Just interested in whether there is much difference. I think can be enhanced to about 240 BHP from 190.
You can probably increase the HP of any modern engine by messing with the fuel mapping and other factors (mainly the former) but the cost will generally be

- worse fuel consumption
- potentially you will "un-smooth" the engine's performance profile
- risk engine damage
- you invalidate the warranty!
- you should tell your insurers and they may decline cover or ramp up your premium
- if you increase CO2 emissions that affects the tax disk band, no idea if they ever retrospectively adjust that.

I doubt I'd consider doing it on a new car. And I would definitely take lots of time to investigate who was doing it - there are lots of cowboys out there who will charge you several hundred quid and do horrid things to your engine. There *are* companies that understand what's going on inside and have the right tools to measure, test, feedback, repeat until correct. Also, don't go *near* a "boost box" type solution, most (all?) of those work by cutting important sensors out of the engine management loop and sending incorrect data back to the ECU.
 

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If you are in UK dealer won't chip it and if you get it done warranty and possibly insurance will be invalid. May be ok in other markets.
 

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ccomley said:
discosportdisaster said:
ccomley said:
Er, just out of interest, why?
Good question. I had never considered it before, but read here that someone had done it. Just interested in whether there is much difference. I think can be enhanced to about 240 BHP from 190.
You can probably increase the HP of any modern engine by messing with the fuel mapping and other factors (mainly the former) but the cost will generally be

- worse fuel consumption
- potentially you will "un-smooth" the engine's performance profile
- risk engine damage
- you invalidate the warranty!
- you should tell your insurers and they may decline cover or ramp up your premium
- if you increase CO2 emissions that affects the tax disk band, no idea if they ever retrospectively adjust that.

I doubt I'd consider doing it on a new car. And I would definitely take lots of time to investigate who was doing it - there are lots of cowboys out there who will charge you several hundred quid and do horrid things to your engine. There *are* companies that understand what's going on inside and have the right tools to measure, test, feedback, repeat until correct. Also, don't go *near* a "boost box" type solution, most (all?) of those work by cutting important sensors out of the engine management loop and sending incorrect data back to the ECU.
Strange, apart from the warranty, thats pretty much the total opposite from what reputable ECU re-programmers state!
 

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Hawks said:
ccomley said:
You can probably increase the HP of any modern engine by messing with the fuel mapping and other factors (mainly the former) but the cost will generally be

- worse fuel consumption
- potentially you will "un-smooth" the engine's performance profile
- risk engine damage
- you invalidate the warranty!
- you should tell your insurers and they may decline cover or ramp up your premium
- if you increase CO2 emissions that affects the tax disk band, no idea if they ever retrospectively adjust that.

I doubt I'd consider doing it on a new car. And I would definitely take lots of time to investigate who was doing it - there are lots of cowboys out there who will charge you several hundred quid and do horrid things to your engine. There *are* companies that understand what's going on inside and have the right tools to measure, test, feedback, repeat until correct. Also, don't go *near* a "boost box" type solution, most (all?) of those work by cutting important sensors out of the engine management loop and sending incorrect data back to the ECU.
Strange, apart from the warranty, thats pretty much the total opposite from what reputable ECU re-programmers state!
Yeah, well, ask yourself which one of us has an agenda here :) It depends how it's done. "Boost box" solutions, I can't think of any way it's "elegant"< it's like fixing your main fuse by wedging a nail in. Don't touch. Proper re-mapping, well, it can be done well or it can be done badly. When I briefly investigated getting it done on my TD5, only ONE of the many offering the service was recommended by anyone. They (Five-alive) were recommended by lots of folk, their approach is very hands on, they drive the car, talk to you about how it's behaving and what you want, tinker aa bit, drive it again, see if you're happy, and generally check the work and repeat until happy. Most of the others just apply a standard remap off a memory stick and swipe your credit card.

Frankly, *my* DS is plenty perky as it is and I wouldn't want to tinker with it and risk issuse arising.
 

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I have experience of several chip tuning companies on various cars, and I can confirm that the companies do make extravagant claims for their products. You will suffer worse fuel consumption, for as Scotty said in Star Trek "ye canna change the laws of physics captain". To get more power and torque from a turbo engine is easy - you increase boost pressure and increase fuel flow and hey presto! However, increasing fuel flow will result in worse fuel consumption - it's simple maths. The increased power will put your engine under increased stress (which it may or may not be able to deal with long term). you will lose some smoothness, as the remaps are invariably more aggressive than standard, and the chip tuners do not have access to the same level of test facilities as the manufacturers. So, just be aware of the potential issues before chipping your car.
 

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A car is tuned by the manufacturer to reflect the needs of the market. If your needs are different, then re-tuning by a proper tuner is what you need. Anything else stated (and excuse my wording) is nonsense.
 

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Ive had a couple of cars in the past, an audi S3 with a "proper" chip which resulted in over 300bhp and on my journey to work an extra 5 MPG so it was a win win situation. My current car has a diesel tuning box which plugs in to 2 components. It has resulted in more power and a slight change for the better in approx 2 MPG.

If they are done right by a reputably company then their is no issues, i had a R32 which was also chipped and VW did some warrenty work on the car without any issue.

Of course all manufactures are like that and of course you have to tell your insurance company if you do.
 

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I find your assertion about increased fuel economy impossible to support - as stated in my previous post, more power comes from more fuel/air burnt, along with increased turbo boost, so how does that possibly equate to better fuel consumption? Claims about more or better 'efficiency' are completely spurious IMHO. If it was as easy as that to get more power and better fuel consumption, and get smoother performance, then it would be a no-brainer that every manufacturer would simply do just that - ask yourself why wouldn't they? There is always a trade-off when tuning engines - performance vs. economy, and without a 'magic' box, how can it be otherwise. Now, you may get slightly better consumption on a chipped car if you drive it very very gently, due to the manipulation of the fuel/air/ boost parameters, but if you ever use the extra performance, then goodbye consumption, and if you don't use the extra performance most of the time, then what's the point?
 

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I've chipped the last 3 of my work vans ... The present one increased power from 115 to 146 and the mpg went from 27 average driving to 36 ... you can change up to a higher gear much sooner and keep it at low revs in those gears that is where the economy comes from
 

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I think the company is called JE Engineering. (I could be wrong so worth you Googling)

They used to do the "Dakar" conversions on Range Rovers many years ago.

I think they've been doing work on the 2.2 Duratorq lump in recent years. I talked to them a year or two ago and I think they offered a warranty and free re-installation so you could take it back to stock for servicing by JLR. I decided not to bother as I like the JLR warranty and I wasn't going to bugger around with a new car's map. On an older out of warranty car....well that would be a different proposition.

Remaps in themselves are not bad things. Manufacturers do it, but as people have said it has to be done well.

If JLR actually offered customers proper choice, there perhaps would be less need for the tuners. Twice now, with my FL and my impending DS I have tried to buy the 240 BHP Ford petrol engine. I can spec the car down to the tiniest detail, but despite the fact they produce the car to the spec I want, with a petrol engine, they won't sell me one in the UK.

I think the Ingenium rated at 180 BHP and mated to the ZF 9 speed will be more than up to the job, but I really hope they introduce a 200+ Ingenium by the time I am ready to order the car after next. (Hopefully an Evoque XL)
 

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Tuners reckon they can take the 180bhp rated ingenium to around 230bhp, and increase torque by some 50ft/lb... This is based in the Jaguar XE, as the DS is not listed as yet. That would suggest the ingenium is far more capable than JLR are presenting it...

I had my 143bhp BMW X1 sdrive 18d remapped to a claimed 199bhp, with torque increased some 60ft/lb... this was validated on a rolling road and has transformed the car from a sluggish, underpowered car, to something that is a joy to drive. I had the remap done for towing, and am otherwise a very conservative driver. I have seen a significant increase in MPG as well, measured on a fill to fill basis (normally with 50 miles range remaining). Before the remap, a full tank would get me around 500 miles, I am now getting closer to 600.
 

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LR in order to respect the 139g CO2 limit, must map his motor in consequence. I have no doubt, if that without this kind of limit, or fuel consumption issue, that the ingenium can have more than 200 Horse power and more Torque.
That's said with a 9 speed auto box, and a very large torque curve, I think that the DS will be great. Hoping mine in november
 

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I can see there are some mixed views here amongst us.
Personally, I don't think you'll be disappointed with the new engine. Whilst 180 output is lower than outgoing 2.2 unit (190) the pick-up and response is very impressive.
Whilst I agree that perhaps some remapping processes can improve optimum performance from an engine block I'd be concerned that in the event of an engine failure or fault the manufacture would use the remapping as an excuse for failure and in turn suggest the warranty has been invalidated. A too bigger risk for the potential consequences in my eyes.
Hope you enjoy your car nonetheless!
 

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I get the impression, having read a bit more about the Ingenium or AJ20 as it is known, that what we are seeing is just the start. A modern modular motor which can be built in petrol and diesel versions up to 6 cylinders will I imagine come with a huge choice of power options .

I predict in five years the AJ20 will have matured. Installed in the XE DS Evoque and Defender replacement. High performance diesels for the XE? Maybe versions in things like the Jaguar F-Pace and as emissions and capacity rules change, who knows? Maybe a highly tuned engine in the F Type?

That's without potential sales of the engine to other manufacturers for cars not yet on the drawing board.
 
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