[Zedman]

Although it is undoubtedly true that a petrol engine is better suited to short trips than a diesel engine, my wife is now on her 4th Honda Civic and her first diesel and most of her driving is very short trips. The car is averaging 64MPG from new which is incredible I think and no issues with the particulate filter or any other diesel engine related problems.
Shame they can't sort an engine out for Mclaren!!!

 

[Zedman]

So am I understanding correctly that the engine diagnostics is measuring the diesel oil dilution? Is that where the 4.2% comes from?

Dave

 

[Zedman]

From further up the thread ^^

Active regeneration of the DPF is commenced when the temperature of the DPF is increased to the combustion temperature of
the particles. The DPF temperature is raised by increasing the exhaust gas temperature. This is achieved by introducing
post-injection of fuel after the pilot and main fuel injections have occurred.

Engine oil dilution can occur due to small amounts of fuel entering the engine crankcase during the post-injection phases. This
has made it necessary to introduce a calculation based on driving style to reduce oil service intervals if necessary. The driver
is alerted to the oil service by a message in the instrument cluster.

The DPF software monitors the driving style and the frequency of the active regeneration and duration. Using this information
a calculation can be made on the engine oil dilution. When the DPF software calculates the engine oil dilution has reached a
predetermined threshold (fuel being 7% of engine oil volume) a service message is displayed in the IC.

Cheers, didn't spot that! Doh!

 

[Zedman]

That's really helpful and interesting VDS, many thanks for taking the trouble to post.

The thing that concerns me is the figure of 4.2%. I had a good friend that sold oils and I am sure I remember him saying the if diesel oil is diluted over 2.5% then premature engine wear will occur. Hopefully JLR know what they are talking about!

 

[Zedman]

So the frequency of short or long journeys would affect the service interval fairly significantly then?

 

[Zedman]

Last year's sales brochure contained a prominent piece about the 21K/2 year servicing on page 46, claiming it made the car "more affordable and convenient to own". In the latest version, though....

http://www.landrover.co.uk/Images/Land-Rover-Discovery-Sport-Brochure-1L5501810CCSBGBEN01P_tcm295-382279.pdf

...there's not a dicky bird on servicing. Does anyone know what the dealer reps are telling prospective buyers at the moment?

My dealer rep categorically told me service is 21K when I ordered end of April. He also mentioned the 'cost of ownership' in the same sentence!

 

[Zedman]

I am picking my new DS up on Tuesday and i will be specifically asking the sales guy who sold me the car if i can just drive the car till the mileage hits 21K without any adverse affect to the engine as was 'sold' to me when I was buying the car.

It will be interesting to hear what he says!!

 

[Zedman]

Just as a matter of interest, Ford are also having diesel regeneration problems on the Transit engine and I think I have also heard that VW have had some issues so the problem is probably wider that we think.

 

[Zedman]

Land rover quote here
service 2.JPG

2 annual (12,000 miles) services on my Nissan 370Z Nismo have cost me £448 so it sounds like LR dealers are getting the same revenue anyway for just the one service!

 

[Zedman]

Would any of you know to whom I should write at LR about this. I'm honestly not prepared to pay for interim oil services. My dealer clearly told me - as part of the sales pitch - that servicing intervals were every 2 years or 21k miles, and that by taking out the service plan this would cover everything required. I'd like to deal with this matter sooner rather than later, and have about 6 weeks between now and picking up my car (build date 1st Sept).
Many thanks

Same here OT. My dealer clearly made a big deal of the service interval of 21K. When I picked my car up this week I asked the question again and got the same message. He is either conveniently ignoring the problem or genuinely does not know of the issue. I honestly think it is the latter!

Dave
PS It is real shame that the car has this potential issue as it is a dream to drive and an extremely practical car!

 

[Zedman]

I have been following this thread with great interest as I only picked up my DS on 1st August. Thanks for all the info in here especially from VDS.
Are there any incidents of catastrophic engine failures in the car? If the oil dilution is that severe and causing premature engine wear surely there will be failures by now. I do have a friend who had an Ingenium engine go on an XE earlier this year, I think it was the big end that went. Do you think this may be the cause?

 

[Zedman]

I think the oil solution problem is only an issue in Disco sport and Evoque . The engine on Jag XE is aligned differently from LR which is transverse

Yes, if I remember correctly then VDS mentioned this fact earlier on when talking about the different architecture of the Jaguar vehicles.

Ok, I wonder if the 2 million miles of real world testing is referring to the engines in the Jag's then!

 

[Zedman]

Surely LR will have to come clean on this one (although I won't hold my breath). The 2.0 ingenium engine is now used across the range - DS, Evoke, Discovery, Velar, RRS and not forgetting many Jaguar models, as charly777 said as soon as word spreads of this problem, sales will drop through the floor our vehicles will nose dive in value. LR cannot afford to ignore this problem and must offer a solution. I love my DS but I'm starting to get very nervous and thinking of changing to petrol.

Also look forward to posts about real world fuel consumption of the new 240/290bhp petrol engine from any new owners on this site

I discussed this issue yesterday with a senior industrial chemist involved in the green power generation sector. He said this could well prove to be a by-product of something they did to rig emissions testing before VW got caught with their pants down. Seeing the massive damage to revenue and reputation being inflicted on VW they might have rapidly switched all the news cars to permanently run the EMU software mode originally designed for testing. That way they escaped condemnation for cheating but only at the expense of causing massive diesel dilution and engine wear through significantly higher DPF cleaning activity. How else to explain why a major manufacturer could make such a fundamental miscalculation on such a massive scale?

Somehow the fact that I may be driving a TRULY green car :mrgreen: doesn't make me feel a whole lot better.

Edited. come clean - missed it the first time :lol:

That sounds a very plausible explanation. As you say, how can a major manufacturer with all the testing they do miss something so fundamental. Interesting!

 

[Zedman]

How are owners getting the software updates done and how do you know if the car requires one. I am asking this on the basis that the car does not need a service for 21,000 miles of 2 years!!

 

[Zedman]

I have been reading this thread with great interest as I only picked my car up on 1st August. Just a thought, is it worth me getting a sample of the oil checked now with only 500 miles on the clock? Or is that a waste of time and money?

 

[Zedman]

How are owners getting the software updates done and how do you know if the car requires one. I am asking this on the basis that the car does not need a service for 21,000 miles of 2 years!!

Any updates required will show on Land Rover TOPIx site. Register for free as an "independent repairer". It will give you details of your car's build, plus any service actions that required, and also allow you to download copies of the repair manual and service notices for a fee..
That said, my dealer allegedly carried out N020 but it's still showing as "outstanding". I suppose I'd better phone Marshalls.

Thanks Pastmaster.

 

[Zedman]

Thanks for the reply VDS. I just wondered if there may be something present in the oil right from when the engine is filled with the oils.
Dave

 

[Zedman]

Thanks for the reply VDS. I just wondered if there may be something present in the oil right from when the engine is filled with the oils.
Dave

There's a Millers Oils report on a sample of fresh Edge Pro in the Engine & Drivetrain sticky that might meet your requirements.

Thanks for that VDS, I will have a look.

 

[Zedman]

Not surprising reply I guess. Interesting they are still quoting in writing that the service interval is 21K.

EDIT: This was in response to Charly777 post.

 

[Zedman]

This YT video explains a number of things quite well:
What is DPF DEF EGR SCR?

Worth watching the whole thing but it mentions how un-burnt diesel gets into the sump from around 6:15.

EDIT: Mamil posted while I was typing

I am an engineer and understand the diesel combustion engine process very well but that YT video has completely depressed me knowing the issues with the Ingenium engine!