[Dashnine]

When they complete an action it does disappear from Topix.

But TOPIx does display a list of completed actions (a long one in my case). It's just that these aren't on it.

Where? Not seen it, unless hidden away on this latest update.

 

[Dashnine]

They're what all Topix users are reading, i.e. those with a subscription to access the documents.

 

[Dashnine]

Interesting quote from the TOPIx page on dpf regeneration.
Depending on driving style, some vehicles may require an oil service before the designated interval. If a service message is displayed, the vehicle will be required have a full service and the service interval counter will be reset.
So we should be getting a full service, free if we have the service plan, and the counter reset. :?: :?: :?:
file:///C:/Users/David/Downloads/Exhaust%20System%20DPF%20Operation.pdf (last page)

My car needs a fix to display the service message along with the NOX issue. I wonder how LR expects me to know when service is due

Will show up on the InControl app if a service is required.

 

[Dashnine]

It pops up as an icon similar to low fuel or washer fluid, also as additional item in the Vehucl Health Report. In bog standard app.

 

[Dashnine]

Having had an unpleasant period of time owning an S type Jag with some "issues" I do wonder if DPF regens are impacting on the service length as my old Jag used to spew out that much diesel when trying to trigger regens that some of it used to end up in the sump diluting what oil was in there.. Logically my mind told me there was no connection between the exhaust system and the sump that didn't involve a trip back up the exhaust and past piston rings that were compressing a volatile gas and trying to force it out of that same exhaust system but with the evidence in front of me I struggled to comprehend an alternative cause! Maybe this is why the DS service interval is the previously stated "Fairy Dust" ?

Sadly, you are correct as fuel is injected, not to be burnt in the combustion cycle, but to pass through to the exhaust. Some fuel doesn't make it and slips through and down into the sump. From ToPix:

Active regeneration of the DPF is commenced when the temperature of the DPF is increased to the combustion temperature of
the particles. The DPF temperature is raised by increasing the exhaust gas temperature. This is achieved by introducing
post-injection of fuel after the pilot and main fuel injections have occurred.

Engine oil dilution can occur due to small amounts of fuel entering the engine crankcase during the post-injection phases. This
has made it necessary to introduce a calculation based on driving style to reduce oil service intervals if necessary. The driver
is alerted to the oil service by a message in the instrument cluster.

The DPF software monitors the driving style and the frequency of the active regeneration and duration. Using this information
a calculation can be made on the engine oil dilution. When the DPF software calculates the engine oil dilution has reached a
predetermined threshold (fuel being 7% of engine oil volume) a service message is displayed in the IC.

Depending on driving style, some vehicles may require an oil service before the designated interval. If a service message is
displayed, the vehicle will be required have a full service and the service interval counter will be reset.

 

[Dashnine]

That's got to be the best and most lucid explanation I have seen on this subject so far. Thanks Dashnine!

Sadly I can't claim it as mine - I copied the various paragraphs out of the Exhaust System DPF Operation document in the ToPix document thread. There's some good stuff in there on all aspects of the car, and in many cases giving a better explanation of how things work than you'll get from a dealer!

 

[Dashnine]

Bit more from the manual:

Passive regeneration requires no special engine management intervention and occurs during normal engine operation. The passive regeneration involves a slow conversion of the particulate matter deposited in the DPF into carbon dioxide. This process occurs when the DPF temperature exceeds 250°C (482°F) and is a continuous process when the vehicle is being driven at higher engine loads and speeds.

During passive regeneration, only a portion of the particulate matter is converted into carbon dioxide. This is because the
chemical reaction, which utilises nitrogen dioxide, is slower than the rate of engine production of particulate matter and is
effective from 250°C (482°F).

 

[Dashnine]

My DS HSE Auto is 11 months old with 11k mileage and I've just had the service warning come up on both car screen and control app. I hope to contact dealer tomorrow if they're open Good Friday. Any advise what to ask for, is this a software problem or should I insist on oil change under warranty. Any help gratefully received.

MSH

Tell them the cars asking for a service and see what they say. If they say it's an error, use the info on this thread to show it's not as the car has calculated the oil is contaminated with fuel. Service should be free if you have Service plan, chargeable otherwise. It's not a warranty issue as it's not a fault but normal, expected behaviour due to the operation of the car.

 

[Dashnine]

Presumably the service reset from Mamil is for the 2.2 PSA engine?
For future reference, (after warranty expires) anyone know the method for the ingenium engine please.

It's the same for Ingenium, why would it be different? You're hardly to change the logic just because you change the engine, the instrumentation electronics are the same.

 

[Dashnine]

The car can call for a service if it calculates more than 7% engine oil contamination with diesel from DPF cycles (where excess diesel is injected into the engine to raise exhaust temperature to burn off particulates), due to driving style or the frequency of DPF cycles..

 

[Dashnine]

The car can call for a service if it calculates more than 7% engine oil contamination with diesel from DPF cycles (where excess diesel is injected into the engine to raise exhaust temperature to burn off particulates), due to driving style or the frequency of DPF cycles..

Which worries me as after the last update my AdBlue usage almost doubled.

I thought as a MY17 yours would have doubled anyway, not related to an update?

 

[Dashnine]

Wow - I think you get the record!

Lots of short journeys, therefore incomplete DPF regenerations? (which contaminates the oil and when hits a calculated 7% diesel in oil the car calls for a service).

 

[Dashnine]

There's no oil indicator. Just a message saying service due. Car has been in several times for forced regen. Surely they'd have checked the oil. But my main question is do you guys think this is an accepted level of performance?

Well no, but really modern diesels aren't suitable for lots of short journeys - but of course they'll never tell you that in the showroom. Either your driving pattern doesn't allow for a regen at anytime (you need a 20 - 30 minute or so trip at 50ish mph or more to trigger and complete the DPF burn), or there's an underlying problem.

They won't check the oil when forcing the regen. AdBlue may not have been topped up prior to delivery so you may get more out of the tank now. Bear in mind that's a seperate system, not connected to DPF.

 

[Dashnine]

If the service indicator was reset (based on LR advice that the request was false one) I assume the indicator would re-appear if the oil is being checked by sensors and contamination was still present?

The oil isn't checked by sensors, it's a calculation based on "driving style and the frequency of the active regeneration and duration".

 

[Dashnine]

So the frequency of short or long journeys would affect the service interval fairly significantly then?

I think that's the assumption, i.e. short journeys means failed DPF regens (so not sure if it tries again next trip or waits until the filters full again). Mine kicked off this morning into work and won't have finished - be interesting to see if it kicks in on the way home. There's no actual definition of the 'driving style' mentioned.

 

[Dashnine]

So the frequency of short or long journeys would affect the service interval fairly significantly then?

I think that's the assumption, i.e. short journeys means failed DPF regens (so not sure if it tries again next trip or waits until the filters full again). Mine kicked off this morning into work and won't have finished - be interesting to see if it kicks in on the way home. There's no actual definition of the 'driving style' mentioned.

How can you tell when a re-gen is happening? My D4 used to growl like a V8 when it did a re-gen but so far I've not noticed any change in exhaust tone or engine performance. I do a lot of motorway, A road and hooing on B roads. Very few short journeys.

Bit worrying that my service indicator was reset at 11K miles (based on LR advice) as am I now driving around with potentially contaminated oil?

Stop / Start is disabled (it won't stop - unfortunately the dash light is still on), your fuel economy drops through the floor as it injects extra fuel and when you get out the car there can be a 'hot' smell and exhaust tinkling as it cools.

I don't understand why you'd have the early service light with your 'driving profile'. It seems to kick in around 5 minutes into a trip and last about 20-30 minutes, if you're doing very few short journeys you'd think you'd be the last one to have early oil change.

 

[Dashnine]

Maybe my re-gens happen at speed and I've not noticed then ?

Most likely, the increased fuel consumption would get hidden in the longer trips average.

 

[Dashnine]

So has anyone who has N020 against their car in ToPix (i.e. vehicles with oil dilution at 6% or greater), had a letter yet?

 

[Dashnine]

And in case anyone's interested, here's an example of the printout I mentioned I get every time the dealer does anything. You can see "Job 1" was the same interim oil & filter change that appears in the OSH above, so there's another way of getting a record of interim oil changes.

The others were a combination of outstanding service campaigns and things I asked them to look at under warranty - including fixing the dreaded B-Pillar rattle in 'Job 5' :evil:

Service log_20170731.jpg

So, if I am reading the invoice correctly, an oil and filter change would cost £125?

Bit more than that - Mamil is in Australia, the AU$125 was just the oil and levy, you have to add the labour and filter costs to about AU$250 all in, so around £150.

 

[Dashnine]

For those of you in the U.K. it would possibly be interesting to know which dealer had, if I understand the comments correctly, given the customer conflicting information. In writing stick to the standard intervals and, presumably verbally, to ignore the service interval mileage indicator.

Or have I got it completely wrong?

It's also nice to know that the dealer has so much work that he would refuse a straightforward oil and filter change.

Given the process we've heard about, that nothing is admitted by LR or dealers in terms of what they will do, and also liability (e.g. 100% contribution, goodwill, etc.) I'm not surprised by the above dealer statement - it's what we expect them to say.

When the 6.1% target is hit by the car, I expect an oil & filter change will magically happen as it appears it did on mine at circa 7000 miles.

Don't know what's going on with those mileage figures though, where 8,350 and 19,850 came from? ~Maybe 8,350 was total miles (not additional) to 6.1% contamination, but at loss to see how they change it to 19,850!