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Service interval

1.2M views 3.3K replies 216 participants last post by  whitdav1  
Discofrustrated said:
2017 Discovery Sport SE Tech. Bought November 2018, 10,500 miles, dealer serviced for 2 year 21,000 miles. Covered 8,400 miles, service indicator came on! Dealer response "It could be the filter (which one?) or oil viscosity problem (WTF does that mean 🙈)! May or may not be covered under warranty! Can I book it in for check, courtesy car not available to end of November, yet their forecourt littered with ex demonstrators.......time to p/x for a bike 🤬
Your car is pretty "average" according to the service poll and an audit of 98 user accounts about premature oil changes (8,306 miles) further up the thread. Depending on the status of N289 your estimated oil dilution is either 6% (not installed) or 10% (N289 installed). You need an oil and filter change either way,

The car has a systemic fault that can't be fixed and therefore, by rights, JLR should stump up, especially if you came into this believing that you would get 21K / 2 years between services. But what they are going to tell you - in all likelihood - is that you have used the wrong driving style and on that basis ask you to pay for the oil change. It is bollox of course but, hey, we are rich enough to drive Land Rovers, welcome to JLR.

Its happened thousands of times already and will keep happening until the cows come home. Thats you and me, btw, JLR's "cash cows". :D
 
The simplistic explanation favoured by JLR for oil dilution is that it is the result of incomplete regenerations. This can make it appear that drivers are causing the problem. The truth (as JLR has confirmed) is that the architecture of the DS exhaust demands longer and more frequent periods of regeneration which serves to increase the probability that the same journey will interrupt a regeneration on this car but not, say, on a Jaguar XE which has the same engine but not the "challenged" exhaust.

The fact that oil dilution correlates well with post injection facilitated the creation of the algorithm that estimates it. I found a 10 year old presentation from the genesis period of this vital technology. It is an interesting read for the more technically minded amongst us and was given at the DEER conference held in 2009. Apologies if this has appeared before.
 

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Past master said:
Of course we could just forget about the "21000 mile/2 year" service and service our cars sensibly on an annual/12000 mile basis. Not all Google results concern JLR - here's a very sensible one regarding Audi, Mercedes etc, which sets out very clearly what we all know, but in relation to German cars. The recommendation is to service annually and use premium grade fuel. Interestingly it does also suggest that at least some German models let you know that regen is happening by flashing the glowplug light. Oh - and it mentions "driving style" too.
https://www.autotecnic.co.uk/maintenance/diesel-particulate-filters-dpf-technical-info/
There was one mention each for "AUDI" and "MERCEDES" - but only because these names appeared in a marketing-oriented banner at the top. The company wrote this page to advertise their service-based wares: "We specialise in Engine Management Diagnostics & Computerised Wheel Alignment for all German Cars."
The web page from Autotecnic [sic] contains generic marketing boilerplate and has nothing to do with the specific problems affecting D8 cars.

Some people who bought DS and Evoque motor cars were misled about short journeys and DPF clogging. But everybody who expected a 21,000 mile service interval without incurring levels of diesel dilution that "will result in engine failure" was equally misled. Known faults (unresolved engineering "challenges") responsible for both of these problems were never disclosed to prospective buyers. According to recent accounts, many of the affected owners now find themselves being financially penalised as JLR and its dealers harden their stance over who should pay for additional oil changes, DPF replacement and so forth. This will get worse as more cars develop problems reaching the end of the warranty period. This did not arise as the result of an unfortunate accident: the evidence suggests that it was planned in advance.

People were told one thing.....


….but not another. This crucial information was withheld to prevent customer sales objections:

View attachment 9557
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The reason this happened is unique to the D8 diesels made by JLR from 2015 onwards. The obstructing bulkhead and 70 cm of pipework has no parallel in any other car from this or any other manufacturer - perhaps because most car manufacturers carefully measure the engine compartment before selecting an engine. JLR's engineers didn't suddenly discover that this problem existed in 2016, they would have fully understood the implications of the "challenged" exhaust system long before a single car had left the factory.

Arguably, engineering should have persuaded executive management to come clean and change the service intervals to 12,000 miles while they had the chance. But that would have deterred many buyers and maybe that's why they left it where it was. Doing this enabled them to sell more cars: I know one victim who stated categorically that they would not have bought a diesel DS had it not been for the perceived benefits of extended service intervals. There are hundreds of others who would say the same thing. JLR eventually did change the brochures but some dealer sales staff still fudged the issue if it came up or created innovative ways to secure sales.

Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 outlines the risks for any person who makes a fraudulent representation with the intention of making a gain for themselves (or someone else) or exposes another person to the risk of loss. The attached paper from Burges-Salmon published in January 2016 explained how this legislation could easily have been used against VW for making money from fraudulent sales of polluting vehicles: "Volkswagen appears to have admitted making false representations to customers regarding the emissions of its vehicles and the vehicles' compliance with EU emissions standards. It is unlikely that prosecutors will struggle to establish that these false representations were made with the intention of making an economic gain. Prosecutors are also likely to be able to establish that the conduct was performed with the required state of mind. The maximum penalty for this offence is ten years in prison, a fine, or both."


A few months later the government announced no action would be taken against VW here in the UK, a story that was covered by The Guardian in July 2016*. Presumably the UK felt that there was little it could do that would add materially to the prosecution being undertaken by the German authorities: in June 2018 Reuters announced that a one billion Euro fine had been levied against VW for its "emissions cheating" activities.

* https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/15/government-is-letting-vw-off-the-hook-over-emissions-scandal-say-mps
 

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Google's Related Searches uses AI to predict what I was "probably" looking for based on the words that I entered into my search. It's got nothing to do with my personal history. It's a kind of intelligent guess based on what other people looked for when they also used those words.

As well as arming you with keyword phrases to fit into your articles, related searches also give you a massive insight into who your customers are and what their intent is.
More here:

https://www.smartinsights.com/search-engine-optimisation-seo/seo-strategy/using-related-searches-google-helps-boost-seo/
 
Yes, I'd thought of that but I always delete cached pages, browsing history, etc automatically on exit. The previous search was done from my ipad but I just got practically the same results on this desktop machine. I've tried Bing, Dogpile, Duckduckgo, Hotbot, Lycos, and Yahoo. The results are always the same give or take when the search string entered is "diesel fio dilution eu6 service interval" - Lycos and Bing I've never even visited before. I'm not sure what else can be done to create a virgin search.

Try it and see what you get: https://www.google.com/search?q=diesel+fio+dilution+eu6+service+interval




 

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It's often been said that all EU6 diesels suffer from oil dilution, reduced service intervals and other problems associated with driving style. To see whether this is true I went to Google and entered the following search: diesel fio dilution eu6 service interval.

The top ten responses include nine related to current Jaguar Land Rover products. Google's "Related searches" also suggested that I might want to search on:

discovery oil dilution issue
range rover sport oil dilution
evoque oil dilution
discovery sport oil dilution
2.0 ingenium engine problems
velar oil dilution
land rover discovery forum
ingenium engine oil dilution

Not just a JLR issue then.