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Spot on Hillwalker, my sentiments exactly.
 

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Hill walker, all manufacturers are doing the same test (flawed) so we are in fact on a level playing field. It is just a case of knowing that and making allowances. In an ideal world the manufacturers would come clean with real world figures, but until they are forced to do so, I'm afraid it is going to be up to to us punters to read between the lines and make our decisions on vehicle purchase.
Remember, what car would you rather be in if on very dodgy ground or heavy snow??
 

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Hillwalker said:
I do think some people here are actually missing the point. Its about honesty and integrity. I couldn't care less whether somebody else thinks 35mpg or 45mpg or whatever is a reasonable expectation. LR advertise the DS as returning over 50mpg as a 'combined' figure. It doesn't, you can expect to get about 38 - 40 mpg overall combined mpg.

If I go to a garage and the pump tells me I have put 50 litres in my tank I expect 50 litres, and I expect to pay for 50 litres. I don't expect to get 38 litres and be charged for 50 litres. If I did I would make a fuss, I assume some folk on here would just accept it.

The principle is the same. If the manufacturers are deceiving us by using 'laboratory test' figures, then the practice should be stopped and replaced by an honest system.
The 'combined' figure is still a fixed test result from the eu/government(s) agreed scientific test. Suspect honesty and integrity cannot be directed towards LR when all they have done is provide the test results as required by law. There is no evidence of anything dishonest in the LR results, unlike VW/Audi/Seat/skoda who blatantly cheated on emission AND mpg figures!
Many people assume that the official test results are the manufacturers saying what you will get in real life, they are not. They have to provide the results according to the standard tests. By law.

Direct your criticism to the government tests. These scientific test results do of course show that the ingenium engine is a lot more efficient and lower emission than the ford engine.

There is a new test regime, which was meant to improve matters (see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_harmonized_Light_vehicles_Test_Procedures) but since these tests have to be achievable by all cars they end up using very slow acceleration times. For instance they comment about the 0 to 30 mph acceleration test time being 15 seconds, which is a lot slower than most drivers and cars do in the real world.
Hence people are still going to be complaining that they are not achieving the official figures!

So look on the bright side of life, be grateful that you have a car that can accelerate faster than 0-30mph in 15 seconds used in the tests! But don't expect the same mpg figures driving normally in the real world when compared to the very slow accelerations used in the official tests.
 

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Don't forget that independent testers like 'what car' already produce their version of real world mpg figures, which are in reasonable agreement with what people achieve. So the data is there, and it is better that it comes from an independent source. You can't make people go out and read the information though, but it is there.
 

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It's getting there now but it wasn't when the Ingenium was announced and people placed orders, the press followed JLR's figures, they are as much at fault imho.
 

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Yasmar said:
It's getting there now but it wasn't when the Ingenium was announced and people placed orders, the press followed JLR's figures, they are as much at fault imho.
The press only stated what the combined figure issued by LR was, the same as they do for all manufacturers. Auto express have recently taken delivery of a DS which they will test for 12 months giving updates on what they find including actual mpg.
I will post their findings on here when they issue them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #227 ·
I agree with many of the sentiments expressed. The legally required tests are at fault, they need to be changed. If fuel stations were permitted an unspecified range of error in the fuel pumps delivered we would be unhappy, especially if the range of error varied from garage to garage, as indeed the claims for mpg between manufacturers do. If every manufacturer published figures which were consistently optimistic by a standardaised margin of error we could make a comparison judgement, but they don't. Honest John shows how they vary, and at which end of the scale LR is functioning.
 

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Interesting that honestjohn are showing 'real mpg', however these are figures submitted by anyone visiting the sight. You don't even have to register and there are no checks or restrictions on how many mpg figures you give or for how many different cars. So completely open to abuse by manufactures or anyone who may want to boost their own cars figures or downgrade competitors. That may be me being a bit cynical!
 

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I have to admit I'm getting sceptical about reviews now and use them as a guide only
 

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Land Rover are rapidly collecting 'real world' fuel consumption figures from In Control so they know what the DS is actually doing in that regard. After my SD4 Freelander I have to say that I, for one, am not disappointed with the DS fuel consumption.
 

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Skypilot617 said:
Land Rover are rapidly collecting 'real world' fuel consumption figures from In Control so they know what the DS is actually doing in that regard. After my SD4 Freelander I have to say that I, for one, am not disappointed with the DS fuel consumption.
Interesting, how do you know this?
 

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Very true, and glad you're happy. As we know mpg varies greatly with driving style, so how much acceleration and how much braking or anticipation is done. The DS is one of those cars that can accelerate a lot faster than the level in the official test, so most of us do. Mpg is one thing but we have to enjoy driving as well.

It got me thinking, which cars out there are low powered enough and are also driven like there is an old granny at the wheel. I would reckon that the real world and official mpg figures would be a lot closer in that case. One car instantly jumped into my mind! The Nissan micra! Especially prevalent around this area being close to Bournemouth. I'm always getting stuck behind them doing 10mph under the speed limit!

Sure enough when I looked up reported figures of real versus official they were about the same! Theory proven. Lol.
 

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Yasmar said:
Skypilot617 said:
Land Rover are rapidly collecting 'real world' fuel consumption figures from In Control so they know what the DS is actually doing in that regard. After my SD4 Freelander I have to say that I, for one, am not disappointed with the DS fuel consumption.
Interesting, how do you know this?
The information is there and we can all see it for our own vehicles. Even if LR don't see the data in a individual, personal sense I'm assuming they can 'farm' it in an anonymous sense.
 

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Skypilot617 said:
Yasmar said:
Skypilot617 said:
Land Rover are rapidly collecting 'real world' fuel consumption figures from In Control so they know what the DS is actually doing in that regard. After my SD4 Freelander I have to say that I, for one, am not disappointed with the DS fuel consumption.
Interesting, how do you know this?
The information is there and we can all see it for our own vehicles. Even if LR don't see the data in a individual, personal sense I'm assuming they can 'farm' it in an anonymous sense.
So you're speculating that they may do it, you don't know for sure do you?
 
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Yasmar, the Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy we all signed up to when activating InControl are relevant. Some functionality (such as Journey Tracking) can be turned off and therefore no fuel efficiency information is calculated and sent to LR.

Source:
https://incontrol.landrover.com/jlr-portal-owner-web/resources_common/landrover/docs/tac.pdf
https://incontrol.landrover.com/jlr-portal-owner-web/resources_common/landrover/docs/pp.pdf

PP for the UK:
"Journey Information: information about your journey sent from your Vehicle including the journey distance, real-time location, the duration of the journey, the average speed and data about the efficiency of the journey. As referred to above, you can turn off Journeys via the My Land Rover InControl website and the InControl Remote Smartphone App. This will prevent any of the above information from being sent from the Vehicle (except for the last parked location)."
"Vehicle Operation Information: ...We will also collect and process other information about the operation of the Vehicle including, but not limited to, the fuel amount, the distance to empty status, the odometer value..."
In the US, the description of the information collected is more specific:
"Information about How You Drive Your Vehicle - "Journey Information": information about your journey is sent from your Vehicle, including the journey date and distance, the duration of the journey (start date/time and end date/time), the average speed, the distance, the route travelled and data about the Vehicle's fuel efficiency...."
And then generally, Ts&Cs 5.2:
"In order to provide you with the InControl Services it is necessary for us and our service providers to make use of location data sent from your Vehicle. We will always track the last parked location of the Vehicle (and such functionality cannot be switched off by you), however, you can turn off the journey tracking functionality ("Journeys") of the InControl Services at any time via the My Land Rover InControl website and the InControl Remote Smartphone App which will prevent any of the "Journey Information" (as defined in the Privacy Policy) from being sent from the Vehicle (except for the last parked location of the Vehicle)."
 

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Mine has been turned off since day one ... whether they actually still gather the information is anyone's guess
 

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Yasmar said:
So you're speculating that they may do it, you don't know for sure do you?
Exactly. The info is there (unless you signed out of providing it). I speculate Land Rover are interested in 'real world' data - they would be foolish not to be.
 

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Polly gets a Gold Star ..... for her journey home from work, last evening .......

..... 56.4 mpg from the OBC ....

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Cheers

Pete
 

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Now that's more like it :mrgreen:
 

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Hi everyone has anyone else experienced this. I’ve owned a 2016 sport td4 180 for about 2 years now, when I first had the car range was about 330 to a full tank and dropped to about 300 after 7-8 months of owning car which I put down to my driving style. I then spent another 8 months fighting a losing battle with dealer not resetting service light and a failing dpf. My fuel range towards the end of the dpf was down to about 280 which I put down to car trying to regen. Now service light reset and new dpf fitted car has about 300-330 range and would achieve said distance. Now if I fill up the car disconnect the battery and do the same journey to and from work and attempt to drive in the same manner. My range is now 450 and will achieve 400 before fuel light comes on giving me 50 remaining. If the range states 330 or 450 at the end of the tank I get the roughly the same mpg. Is my car constantly overfueling which drags my range down at each fill up?
 
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