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Halogen lights replacement advice

13K views 34 replies 14 participants last post by  K.mai 
#1 ·
Not had the DS for long (SE Tech), all great but I'm not liking the driving and main lights are standard halogen and 'warm white'. Strangely, the front fogs are a bright cool white colour (LEDs?).

In an ideal world I'd like to swap the light unit/clusters out for the HID versions that come with the HSE models. However other threads (mostly quite old) have suggested this is just about impossible due to requirements for self levelling and washers which are not present on my car.

So, the next best is to try and match the driving and main lights to the fog lights (in colour), and to hopefully gain some lumens to boot with decent led replacements.

There are some threads that discuss this, but are mostly a few years old now. Can anyone offer any advice on what lights to look at.... considering light colour match, lumens, minimum wattage issues with LEDs and thoughts about 'can bus' issues.

Thanks, Sparky.
 
#2 ·
First thing I would do would be to replace the standard halogen bulbs with something better. Do a Google search for the latest autoexpress halogen bulb upgrade review. You can easily buy much much better halogens and do a straight bulb swap over in minutes.

Roy
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the reply and also link to autoexpress. Whilst the halogens tested show some improved brightness and may be a little whiter colour, many reviews think them still towards the 'yellow' end of the colour scale. I'd discounted halogens for that reason (can you get cool/white halogens?).

Sparky.
 
#4 ·
I'm hoping to replace the standard halogens with a colour to match that close to the fog lights which to my eye are a much nicer white colour. Not that you have fogs on much but the colour is great and a lot less old fashioned looking for something matching for the driving and main lights. I'm guessing LEDs at around 6000k would be about right?

Sparky.
 
#5 ·
I went down this road and found a dead end. Osram Nightbreaker was said by many to be the way to go but this bulb is still not available with the H15 base. The most powerful (lumens-wise) bulb is the Osram 64176 but that's already the OEM's choice - at least it was on my SE Tech. That leaves Osram Cool Blue Intense which looks good on paper until you look beyond the marketing hype.... https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4191&p=66077#p66011

View attachment GPS01_1056960_COOL_BLUE_INTENSE.pdf
 

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#6 ·
#7 ·
Plus one conversion already burnt out the cars loom on both an FPace and an Epoque.
 
#8 ·
Hi, you'll need to retro fit the system for HID's, ballast resistors etc. Also think about the auto levelling part of it. I looked into it and figured I'd leave it until one of the lamps blow.
 
#9 ·
Beware of LEDs. The light source is certainly different than halogen, so the reflection pattern will be different. While there may be more light output, it will be shining on the ground where you can't see as well as up into the trees and other drivers' faces.

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#10 ·
I considered swap out of the whole signature light clusters/fittings but as this comes with additional practical, safety and warranty issues I've given up on that.

Not sure what the issue with swap out of the halogens for LEDs is though? Assuming the lux/lumen output is similar (not too much over or under) and the colour temp meets that 'white' then what's the problem? LEDs apparently last longer than both hids and halogen, most other auto lighting has swapped from halogen/filament to LEDs. I could see a problem if the led fitting and the actual diodes were very differently positioned in the lamp housing (out of alignment with reflectors). But I should imagine the lamp manufacturers have considered that?

I'm simply trying to get a few more lumens and a change of light colour from my main lights and drl's to more white/match the fog lamps. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Sparky.
 
#13 ·
Yes, the test qualifies it's baseline by detailing use of a projector headlight. BUT also says that "All dipped beam headlights have a cut-off". Both projector and reflector types have cut offs..... The test uses the projector type as it apparently has a more definitive 'cut off' (I think a requirement for HID lamps). Presumably this is intentional to demonstrate the result of any poorly designed lamps that essentially move the centre point (LED or indeed any technology lamp).

What I take from the test is that LED lamps are not an issue per se. It's the form factor and placement of the actual LED's in alignment with the mounting and fitting housing that is the important bit. As the test shows, when this is met, LED's or indeed any light source will be correctly 'cut off'. So, a quality LED lamp, with good lumen output and its diode alignment/geometry should be as good if not an improvement over standard halogens.

As such LED's are not cheap for me to 'try' different lamps, and it seems many before me have toiled with the same question, does anyone have any suggestions for me to narrow down my consideration?

Sparky.
 
#14 ·
Sparky007 said:
Not sure what the issue with swap out of the halogens for LEDs is though? Assuming the lux/lumen output is similar (not too much over or under) and the colour temp meets that 'white' then what's the problem? LEDs apparently last longer than both hids and halogen, most other auto lighting has swapped from halogen/filament to LEDs. I could see a problem if the led fitting and the actual diodes were very differently positioned in the lamp housing (out of alignment with reflectors). But I should imagine the lamp manufacturers have considered that?
The halogen assembly with its reflectors is designed around the precisely positioned and oriented filament in the specified bulb. LEDs cannot provide the intensity of a halogen filament with the same positioning: they provide equivalent overall light output but from a much greater surface.

The makers of the LED lamps have considered their profit margins. In the UK, it's not legal to retrofit non-E-marked emitters (LEDs, HID kits) into assemblies designed for halogen lamps due to the virtual certainty that they'll dazzle.

To avoid the colour mismatch with your front fog lamps, simply leave the fogs off. If you can safely drive at more than about 30mph, fog lamps are not needed, and the front fogs are little more than a styling accessory on most modern cars.

The only legal options you have are: try to find a better halogen bulb; change your car for one with HIDs.
 
#15 ·
It's not just the way the lamp fits the enclosure or reflectors , it also requires the correct glass /plastic ( nowadays) at the front of the light.

As for trial and error , your going to need to check the aim of the beam correctly each time, Plus ensure they are CREE lights for canbus wiring with the correct ballast resistor and also possibly set up self levelling and washers.

It's taken a while for MOT to catch up with regulations but the type approval cannot be ignored as you are modifying your vehicle , so that undoubtedly affects your insurance.

A bit OTT you may think , but there are reasons for rules and regulations.
 
#16 ·
Having seen peps "convert" the headlights on a variety of Land Rover, I agree with Barnsh. You'd best leave alone.

The only one that worked reasonably well was a Disco 4, Halogen to Xenon, but that had headlamp wash on already and it was self levelling with the air suspension. Still needed enabling or the dip beam wouldn't work and they aren't any closer to that for the DS on Autologic or Faultmate web sites.

If that was a must have, you should have purchased a car with it on tbh.
 
#17 ·
Troon said:
The halogen assembly with its reflectors is designed around the precisely positioned and oriented filament in the specified bulb. LEDs cannot provide the intensity of a halogen filament with the same positioning: they provide equivalent overall light output but from a much greater surface.

The makers of the LED lamps have considered their profit margins. In the UK, it's not legal to retrofit non-E-marked emitters (LEDs, HID kits) into assemblies designed for halogen lamps due to the virtual certainty that they'll dazzle.

To avoid the colour mismatch with your front fog lamps, simply leave the fogs off. If you can safely drive at more than about 30mph, fog lamps are not needed, and the front fogs are little more than a styling accessory on most modern cars.

The only legal options you have are: try to find a better halogen bulb; change your car for one with HIDs.
Fully agree. I looked everywhere for better main beam bulbs and found to my dismay and annoyance that I was stuck with crap lights. Unfortunately, the brightest legal H15 bulb on the market today is still the Osram 64176 - which is presumably why JLR specified it.
 
#18 ·
Swapping halogen to LED's.... Rules, regulation, legal?

This is from the latest MOT testing manual:

"Existing halogen headlamp units shouldn't be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp"

No mention of similar restriction with LED's. No mention of self levelling or washers for LED's either.

So, if I could find and fit quality replacement LED's that maintain geometry and provide beam pattern as shown in the test report document & MOT test manual, then what's the problem?

Sparky.
 
#19 ·
I was under the impression from an MOT Tester over on freel2.com that the testers were NOT ALLOWED to remove any parts of the vehicle during the test. Further, if the relevant parts were not fitted (Washers/Levelling Kits) then they COULD NOT be tested and subsequently failed. If they WERE fitted, then they HAD to be working.

I think that the latest interpretation is based along the lines of if a chav rocks up with a 2001-reg Golf TDi and ridiculously bright blue retro fitted bulbs, then clearly it's a fail, as the vehicle never left the factory with them in the first place at that age, and the candela is a totally incorrect colour.

What the EU demand (and hopefully not for much longer) and what they get when dictating to VOSA/MOT testers is ambiguous at best.

As regards LED lighting, it's too recent a technology for anyone to really comment on, as in the main, vehicles fitted with this type of lighting are too new to require an MOT at this moment in time. Hopefully, as previously mentioned, we will soon be free of the tyranny that hamstrings owners from upgrading their lighting legitimately.
 
#20 ·
Sparky007 said:
Swapping halogen to LED's.... Rules, regulation, legal?

This is from the latest MOT testing manual:

"Existing halogen headlamp units shouldn't be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp"

No mention of similar restriction with LED's. No mention of self levelling or washers for LED's either.

So, if I could find and fit quality replacement LED's that maintain geometry and provide beam pattern as shown in the test report document & MOT test manual, then what's the problem?

Sparky.
But you need to read the law not just MOT guidance , cars are manufactured to legal standards and compliance and thus type approval , they are not manufactured to pass an MOT.

Rectangle Font Circle Number Paper
 

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#21 ·
Plus if you don't have self levelling:
Imagine driving up a slope /hill and you meet some poor bod with halogens on the brow of the hill. He's blinded as he's waiting for you to twiddle the knob to drop your lights.

Incidentally my old Volvo had self levelling HID , coming back from the swimming pool every day at the same time , I met the same old codger in his SKoda with Halogens coming the other way . I blinded him daily as my right hand light didn't drop the beam as quickly as the left one ( sticky light mounting) .

Not saying not to do it , it's your car after all , but thinking it through is it really worthwhile.?

Modified for Insurance
Could fail MOT
No longer meets type approval
Could blind someone and cause an accident.
 
#22 ·
Clear as mud then.

Thanks for everyone's input - I've learnt loads but inevitably that's come with more questions and frustration. Love the car, lights are a disappointment but not to the point I need to become a lighting renegade and spend any more time on this!

Think it best I stick with halogens, will keep an eye out for some with whiter colour and improved lumens (<2000lm of course!). From a previous post in this threat, my standard DS ones look to be around 1300lm, so all things considered scope for decent improvement).

Sparky.
 
#23 ·
Sparky007 said:
Clear as mud then.

Thanks for everyone's input - I've learnt loads but inevitably that's come with more questions and frustration. Love the car, lights are a disappointment but not to the point I need to become a lighting renegade and spend any more time on this!

Think it best I stick with halogens, will keep an eye out for some with whiter colour and improved lumens (<2000lm of course!). From a previous post in this threat, my standard DS ones look to be around 1300lm, so all things considered scope for decent improvement).

Sparky.
Yes mate !
100%
Why oh why in this day and age, do JLR fit candies to head lights, then fit AEB , lane keep assist , rest of safety stuff,,,,, at vast expense etc etc is just crap ! Seeing and being seen is the main thing they overlooked.
 
#24 ·
It's in the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations (1989):

RVLR said:
Filament lamps
14.-(1) Where a motor vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1986 or any trailer manufactured on or after 1st October 1985 is equipped with any lamp of a type that is required by any Schedule to these Regulations to be marked with an approval mark, no filament lamp other than a filament lamp referred to in the Designation of Approval Marks Regulations in-

(a) regulation 4 and Schedule 2, items 2 or 2A, 8, 20, 37 or 37A; or
(b) regulation 5 and Schedule 4, item 18,

shall be fitted to any such lamp.
Yes, this pre-dates HID kits and LEDs, but the basic premise is that you're only allowed to fit an approved e-marked bulb to a lamp assembly that is approval-marked (all of the core lamps on the car). That's the legal position. If you can find an e-marked LED replacement, you're good to go - but you won't be able to.

From a practical regard, you simply will not find an LED replacement that delivers the same light output as a halogen in the same shape as the filament to match the reflector. It wouldn't be possible due to the heat performance of LEDs: whilst a filament can happily run at well over 2000degC, LEDs pack up at around 70degC. OEM LED assemblies include a large area of LED emitters with specifically-designed optics and a load of cooling to dump the heat that's generated. LEDs may be 10x more efficient than bulbs, but they're still only about 10% efficient at converting electricity to light: the rest goes as heat and must be controlled.
 
#25 ·
They must've used the halogens to have some DS that look less premium than the range rovers.

As for changing colors, I have seen and did purchase for my Mazda when I had one, bulbs that had the glass tinted blue. This gave a slightly whiter look for the high beams when the low was white HID. I'm not sure if they were bright, but they were certainly cheap. When off, you could see the blue in the reflector, which was an interesting look too!

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#26 ·
I swapped my low beam standard bubs for one of the 150% more light variety halogens and noticed a better low beam spread already.

My gripe is, the hand book instructions recommends taken out grill then the lens casing moves forward 4.5cm for access etc......Didn't have to do any of that to get to; low beam, high beam bulbs. Access for these bulbs is easy with no removal of any grill etc.....the only bulbs with very limited access to are the indicator bulbs. Fingers X I won't have to change that one any time soon ;)
 
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