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Engine replacing Balance Shaft

211K views 357 replies 86 participants last post by  CMJS2 
#1 ·
Good evening All

Very much gutted after being told by my local dealer (which is not in the uk) that JLR has examined the very high pitch sound coming from the engine upon accelerating and going thru the gears ? And after accessing some test feedback here they have concluded that a new engine is required ! Im still under shock from after hearing this. Never in my wildest dreams or nightmares would i have fathomed a 4 month old under 3500 mile engine needing replacement... Your thoughts if any please....?
 
#102 ·
Interesting thread - slightly unrelated but I had a similar, loud, whining, wailing noise from my engine after I tried to pull out of a side road.

There was an almost complete loss of power and the engine went in to restricted performance mode.

I am told that the Turbo has gone and needs to be replaced - at 27k miles!?

This is a Discovery Sport from Jan 2016 with the ingenium engine.
 
#103 ·
On the one hand, turbos do go unexpectedly and it's probably not a common fault, or no more so on this engine than any other. On the other hand, how many oil changes did you have in that time? There could be a possible link to oil dilution I suppose.
 
#104 ·
The first oil change was at the first service at 21,000 miles afaik - the service due indicator came on again at approx 25-26k and it went in to the dealer who said that they changed the oil at that time.
 
#106 ·
As the oil was not changed until 21000 mls and in view of all the now well known dilution problems, This could well be evidence of the failure being due to lack of lubrication at one of the hottest and highest spinning moving parts, as I mentioned on a previous post.
 
#107 ·
green genie said:
As the oil was not changed until 21000 mls and in view of all the now well known dilution problems, This could well be evidence of the failure being due to lack of lubrication at one of the hottest and highest spinning moving parts, as I mentioned on a previous post.
That is of course a possibility.
 
#108 ·
For you all
Having had my car in the garage for 14 weeks with a Balance shaft issue, I got it back with a little damage. That got repaired then the Turbo/DPF gasket failed, along with the Stop Start after 10 days of having it back!
The car went in again over a weekend and came back out and seemed OK. Now another week on the Stop start has failed again and I am back there Friday.
This is so disappointing from a brand name like JLR.
:?: :?:
 
#109 ·
Balancer shafts seem to be problematic on many cars including GM, Mitsubishi, VAG and Mercedes (particular problems on some models) so I was starting to think that maybe JLR don't deserve to be singled out for this issue. Then I came across this report - Back in the real world - Jaguar XE 28 January 2015:

At the halfway point we swap out for the new XE R-Sport 180. Powered by a somewhat gruff sounding Ingenium diesel, we're assured by the people that know final sound deadening, baffling and even balancer shaft specs haven't been sorted yet. Instead we're to concentrate on the performance and the dynamics of this, the second-most sporty set-up for the new XE.
This was written 3 months before the XE launch, just as the first Disco Sports began to ship with the old engine. :cry:
 
#110 ·
Cooperman61 said:
For you all
Having had my car in the garage for 14 weeks with a Balance shaft issue, I got it back with a little damage. That got repaired then the Turbo/DPF gasket failed, along with the Stop Start after 10 days of having it back!
The car went in again over a weekend and came back out and seemed OK. Now another week on the Stop start has failed again and I am back there Friday.
This is so disappointing from a brand name like JLR.
:?: :?:
To replace balance shafts they would more than likely have had to disconnect the turbo from the down pipe which actually goes to the DOC ( diesel oxidisation catalyst) if they disconnected this they should have reconnected it with a new gasket. That's just shoddy workmanship. Gaskets should always be replaced. 14 weeks without a run won't have done your secondary battery much good either I guess.
 
#111 ·
NoDiscoSport said:
Balancer shafts seem to be problematic on many cars including GM, Mitsubishi, VAG and Mercedes (particular problems on some models) so I was starting to think that maybe JLR don't deserve to be singled out for this issue. Then I came across this report - Back in the real world - Jaguar XE 28 January 2015:

At the halfway point we swap out for the new XE R-Sport 180. Powered by a somewhat gruff sounding Ingenium diesel, we're assured by the people that know final sound deadening, baffling and even balancer shaft specs haven't been sorted yet. Instead we're to concentrate on the performance and the dynamics of this, the second-most sporty set-up for the new XE.
This was written 3 months before the XE launch, just as the first Disco Sports began to ship with the old engine. :cry:
And not long before the DS came out in Ingenium form either. They must have completed the millions of miles road testing with a gruff unbalanced engine ?
 
#112 ·
Barnsh said:
Cooperman61 said:
For you all
Having had my car in the garage for 14 weeks with a Balance shaft issue, I got it back with a little damage. That got repaired then the Turbo/DPF gasket failed, along with the Stop Start after 10 days of having it back!
The car went in again over a weekend and came back out and seemed OK. Now another week on the Stop start has failed again and I am back there Friday.
This is so disappointing from a brand name like JLR.
:?: :?:
To replace balance shafts they would more than likely have had to disconnect the turbo from the down pipe which actually goes to the DOC ( diesel oxidisation catalyst) if they disconnected this they should have reconnected it with a new gasket. That's just shoddy workmanship. Gaskets should always be replaced. 14 weeks without a run won't have done your secondary battery much good either I guess.
The job sheet says to remove the "catalyst" (DOC + upstream pipe) from the turbocharger. During re-assembly they should always re-attach it using a new turbocharger-catalyst gasket, part number LR072251.
 
#113 ·
Hi,

Has anybody on here heard of balance shafts needing to be replacing for a second time?
Mine had them done at 7k miles, the car now has 11k miles on the clock and what I first thought was the turbo getting loud is now starting to sound suspiciously like the first time when it was the shafts.

Typically the dealer can't fit me in until the end of April. :roll:
 
#114 ·
ExDefenderer said:
Hi,

Has anybody on here heard of balance shafts needing to be replacing for a second time?
Mine had them done at 7k miles, the car now has 11k miles on the clock and what I first thought was the turbo getting loud is now starting to sound suspiciously like the first time when it was the shafts.

Typically the dealer can't fit me in until the end of April. :roll:
yep heard of a couple plus an Evoque having it twice , but also heard of folks just rejecting for replacement as they are entitled to do now it has reared its head again. They are allowed one attempt at repair, looks like this failed.
 
#115 ·
Balance shaft was replaced at 11000 miles, unfortunately it failed again within 1000 miles this time JLR agreed to replace the engine. Unfortunately, the car returned with a high frequency vibration and no stop start. The dealer has agreed to investigate this in April. The whole issue is getting very frustrating and I am rapidly losing confidence in the whole car.
 
#116 ·
That really is not good news Motorvat and I'm sure I'd have already completely lost confidence in the vehicle.

It's perhaps a warning to others who suffer the problem to at least try to get a complete engine replacement at the start rather than having just the balance shaft replaced.

I hope you can get it sorted. Good luck anyway.
 
#117 ·
Chippy said:
That really is not good news Motorvat and I'm sure I'd have already completely lost confidence in the vehicle.

It's perhaps a warning to others who suffer the problem to at least try to get a complete engine replacement at the start rather than having just the balance shaft replaced.

I hope you can get it sorted. Good luck anyway.
Your right Chippy, the engine change should always be the ideal as no one knows the underlying damage. I guess it saves money for JLR doing the shaft and bearings on their own :roll:
 
#118 ·
I would like to thank all the posts received re the balance shafts.
After so much trouble with my 17 Disco (see previous posts) I decided to try another car. I did go for the same but a little younger (6 months) and better Spec HSE with extras.
Having said all that, I have now heard a rumour about the company or JLR who were making the balance shafts, that the balance shafts themselves were left outside, and brought in and cleaned up when they needed them to be used packed etc.
This has now apparently been identified as the issue. It seems that this may be the subject of a recall, so if you think you may be affected I would call your local dealer for them to check.
:eek:
Cooperman61
 
#119 ·
Cooperman61 said:
I would like to thank all the posts received re the balance shafts.
After so much trouble with my 17 Disco (see previous posts) I decided to try another car. I did go for the same but a little younger (6 months) and better Spec HSE with extras.
Having said all that, I have now heard a rumour about the company or JLR who were making the balance shafts, that the balance shafts themselves were left outside, and brought in and cleaned up when they needed them to be used packed etc.
This has now apparently been identified as the issue. It seems that this may be the subject of a recall, so if you think you may be affected I would call your local dealer for them to check.
:eek:
Cooperman61
That rumour doesn't sound plausible they make their own balance shafts and cranks as far as I'm aware. I don't see the need to store outside as it's all part of the new modern engine facility.
It also doesn't seem to fit with their JIT supply ethos?

They know about the issue as they have the document for changing when they whine N128.

Any idea where the rumour came from
 
#120 ·
Barnsh said:
Cooperman61 said:
I would like to thank all the posts received re the balance shafts.
After so much trouble with my 17 Disco (see previous posts) I decided to try another car. I did go for the same but a little younger (6 months) and better Spec HSE with extras.
Having said all that, I have now heard a rumour about the company or JLR who were making the balance shafts, that the balance shafts themselves were left outside, and brought in and cleaned up when they needed them to be used packed etc.
This has now apparently been identified as the issue. It seems that this may be the subject of a recall, so if you think you may be affected I would call your local dealer for them to check.
:eek:
Cooperman61
That rumour doesn't sound plausible they make their own balance shafts and cranks as far as I'm aware. I don't see the need to store outside as it's all part of the new modern engine facility.
It also doesn't seem to fit with their JIT supply ethos?

They know about the issue as they have the document for changing when they whine N128.

Any idea where the rumour came from
If it's plausible enough to fool most of the people all of the time, isn't that enough according to JLR SOPs?
 
#122 ·
Barnsh said:
ExDefenderer said:
Hi,

Has anybody on here heard of balance shafts needing to be replacing for a second time?
Mine had them done at 7k miles, the car now has 11k miles on the clock and what I first thought was the turbo getting loud is now starting to sound suspiciously like the first time when it was the shafts.

Typically the dealer can't fit me in until the end of April. :roll:
yep heard of a couple plus an Evoque having it twice , but also heard of folks just rejecting for replacement as they are entitled to do now it has reared its head again. They are allowed one attempt at repair, looks like this failed.
Well................After some dialog between the dealer and Landrover with the addition of some tests requested by Landrover they have agreed not to try and 'fix' the balance shafts again but rather fit a new engine.

The parts have arrived at the dealers so hoping to get it back next week!
 
#123 ·
What 'parts'?!?

Surely if they are replacing the engine, a whole engine should be there, not 'parts'!

Be interesting to see what they change - do you have any way of getting the existing engine serial number off the block? Or are they just going to carry out a low-level repair and tell you that they have changed the whole engine?
 
#124 ·
Hi,

I have been assured a complete engine is going in, the term 'parts' I guess could just be stating not only the engine but all the other bits and bobs, manifold gaskets etc that would also need replacing as part of a swap out.

I've been dealing with Landrover direct as well on this, if anything just to get a case number in case it goes down the rejection route.

Although, I have requested the new engine number so i can get the V5 updated ;)
 
#125 ·
Ingenium Balance Shaft inspection.

#

Presumably scoring just on the shafts = new shafts but any scoring in the shells = new engine?
Or maybe the shells can be extracted? They are shown quite clearly if you freeze frame between 47 and 50 seconds.
About where you hear the word "facked".
 
#126 ·
NoDiscoSport said:
Ingenium Balance Shaft inspection.

#

Presumably scoring just on the shafts = new shafts but any scoring in the shells = new engine?
Or maybe the shells can be extracted? They are shown quite clearly if you freeze frame between 47 and 50 seconds.
About where you hear the word "facked".
Yep I saw the outer race, but they should be able to pull and reinsert an outer race.
They should never replace just the roller and inner race. That's bound to fail again.
 
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