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DPF Fault !!!!!

304K views 577 replies 129 participants last post by  Ray C 
#1 ·
Driving home tonight and the car went into limp mode. Phoned LR Assist - they dispatched the AA, AA turn up and run a diagnostic check which shows a DPF fault. Fault cleared, car working again, will chase LR for a replacement tomorrow.
 
#102 ·
PhilMabbots17 said:
scrf said:
convenient that they are not on the forum, the forum shows an Australian trend

Sadly repeated short low speed journeys will clog particulate filters on any modern diesel car, they all have hardware and architecture.
This car is notably worse than others in this respect because the manufacturer has now admitted that some cars in a batch of 200,000 are fitted with a Faulty DPF Component. This comes on top of an Exhaust System Design Fault that they disclosed in July 2017. It seems that some animals are more equal than others.
Yes and when asked directly if they can say which VIN is affected by both the Financial Ombudsman and a Solicitor, JLR stance is that "this information is not recorded on build".
So it reallly is a lottery for the FB boxes.
 
#103 ·
If they really don't record what component level they build into each vehicle then it's a sure sign that there QC system is not functioning. Not really surprising since it was crystal clear anyway.
 
#104 ·
Chippy said:
If they really don't record what component level they build into each vehicle then it's a sure sign that there QC system is not functioning. Not really surprising since it was crystal clear anyway.
Must admit I was surprised too, in one case the DPF was removed and sent back to JLR.
The dealer says he didn't record any details, JLR stated they don't record what's fitted and don't record what's returned. So whoever audits their TQM (quality system) is doing a poor job.

Any proof this customer had of a faulty DPF with FB on it has disappeared "conveniently " into the ether.
 
#106 ·
Guess that's the Vin range Chippy ,ninteresting to try and put a date to the closing VIN , at least some folks will know they are perhaps clear if the dreaded FB boxes.

I do find it hard to believe they don't record this number though, I mean how else have they managed to ascertain only those are faulty, and also tie a specific VIN range to it?

Something is certainly odd imo
 
#107 ·
Their system HAS to tell them which VIN range was fitted with potentially faulty parts. Of course it's recorded and they know it.

Anything else is in total breech of long standing quality systems within the automotive industry.
 
#108 ·
Barnsh said:
Yes and when asked directly if they can say which VIN is affected by both the Financial Ombudsman and a Solicitor, JLR stance is that "this information is not recorded on build".
So it reallly is a lottery for the FB boxes.
Before changing any parts my dealer was told to report back to JLR HQ with the codes from the old SCRF and its replacement, plus the car's software version, to make sure that they were "compatible". Until January 2018 this didn't seem particularly important, but the admission of potentially thousands of faulty SCRFs in SSM73697 changed everything. The need to check serial numbers and software releases with specialist powertrain engineers (the same guys who'd diagnosed the fault on site) implies strongly that this system was still being engineered well into the second half of 2017. Perhaps it just looks like a lottery because that's the way they are playing their cards right now.
 
#109 ·
Chippy said:
Their system HAS to tell them which VIN range was fitted with potentially faulty parts. Of course it's recorded and they know it.

Anything else is in total breech of long standing quality systems within the automotive industry.
Chippy, that's exactly what the dealer told me on 25th January. They CAN do it but it would take weeks to get the data back.

NoDiscoSport said:
With over 200,000 vehicles in the VIN list, isolating the ones which have been fitted with a faulty DPF could be quite a challenge unless JLR provides a bit more information: I asked a dealer this afternoon by email :

So that's 94,023 and 106,722 DS and Evo's respectively, an absolutely huge number of cars. If I came in with repeated Amber or Red DPF lights and my VIN was [within the band], would you have to take the SCRF off to check If it actually was "FB" on the SCRF, or is there another look-up table somewhere for each specific car? It's looks like one heck of a lot of work to physically check them all, especially because the letter code is stamped on top where you can't read it.


Answer:
You're correct. If your vehicle is presented to us with the symptoms described by the SSM we must go down the manual checking route as it would take weeks to find the build date and code from the factory.
 
#110 ·
Well if they do know they are certainly not willing to disclose how many are affected even to the FO or a solicitor. Sad as this can only lead to suppositions on the quantity affected.
What is being hidden?

We used to track nuts and bolts down to batch level , let alone major components.
 
#111 ·
What do you think LR would do to a supplier who couldn't or wouldn't document material flows for product he supplied to them. They'd be down on him like a ton of bricks and rightly so.

I guess we'll never know what they are hiding but hiding something they surely are.
 
#112 ·
Chippy said:
I guess we'll never know what they are hiding but hiding something they surely are.
Say there are two drivers, whose cars "X" and "Y", need a service at the same time, but for quite different reasons as illustrated by the Boston Box below. For argument's sake, let's say the majority (90%) are "Y" cars. Here's the clever bit. The possibility that there are some "X" cars in the sample allows JLR to legitimately deflect attention towards those few "poorly driven" vehicles. The SSM disclosure, coupled with the lack of a build list, keeps everyone else in the dark about the actual proportion and perhaps that's the idea. If it was the other way round and there were only 9,000 DS vehicles to fix, wouldn't it be a great piece of PR to announce a program to get them properly repaired rather than wait for problems to occur???

Colorfulness Azure Slope Human body Triangle
 

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#113 ·
scrf said:
convenient that they are not on the forum, the forum shows an Australian trend

Sadly repeated short low speed journeys will clog particulate filters on any modern diesel car, they all have hardware and architecture.
Not sure what you mean there. I'm in Australia and am drafting a letter of demand right now. The dealers are keen to baffle us with bull, if I wasn't a persistent and annoying person I would probably just continue taking the car to the dealership every two weeks to have them fix things while they blame my "driving style". We have had the amber warning 3 times in a month and the red lamp as well.
 
#114 ·
melbmelb said:
scrf said:
convenient that they are not on the forum, the forum shows an Australian trend

Sadly repeated short low speed journeys will clog particulate filters on any modern diesel car, they all have hardware and architecture.
Not sure what you mean there. I'm in Australia and am drafting a letter of demand right now. The dealers are keen to baffle us with bull, if I wasn't a persistent and annoying person I would probably just continue taking the car to the dealership every two weeks to have them fix things while they blame my "driving style". We have had the amber warning 3 times in a month and the red lamp as well.
Do you guys use the ACCC , might be worth asking them if you've not done so?
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees

PS
I think the comment by Scrf is aimed at me because of the fact I help folks in the uk with rejection that aren't on this forum.
This issue affects owners in both the uk and Australia .
 
#115 ·
Do you guys use the ACCC , might be worth asking them if you've not done so?
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees

PS
I think the comment by Scrf is aimed at me because of the fact I help folks in the uk with rejection that aren't on this forum.
This issue affects owners in both the uk and Australia .
The ACCC is in this space yes. But I plan to write them a polite letter, then a really aggressive letter and file a claim with a solicitor in small claims (VCAT) shortly after.

If you have any tips for rejection feel free to share...
 
#116 ·
melbmelb said:
Do you guys use the ACCC , might be worth asking them if you've not done so?
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees

PS
I think the comment by Scrf is aimed at me because of the fact I help folks in the uk with rejection that aren't on this forum.
This issue affects owners in both the uk and Australia .
The ACCC is in this space yes. But I plan to write them a polite letter, then a really aggressive letter and file a claim with a solicitor in small claims (VCAT) shortly after.

If you have any tips for rejection feel free to share...
One case was able to have their DPF replaced free, where initially the dealer wanted them to pay £1500. This came down to an email from CRC (landrover Customer Relations) stating that the Amber warning light on the vehicle was only visible to the driver for 2.1 seconds.This warning was considered insufficient as it could easily be missed by a driver concentrating on the road.
Basically they never saw the Amber light it went straight to Red, JLR said they were going to do further investigation on this light issue. So if yours went to Red without seeing Amber you may have a similar issue.

The important point here is all this data about warning signs, how long they showed for is all contained in the vehicles systems. Along with any fault codes.

They have since successfully rejected their vehicle ,

The best method so far has been getting as much information from your dealership on exactly what they have found (including any fault codes ) and data held about the SCRF (DPF) system on the car and get them to put it in writing to you.

Another person took their vehicle to a diesel specialist and had the system examined and tested. This showed up faulty under test for pressure leaks. The dealer said they had tested for leaks and it was ok / passed the test.They rejected as they were in the first 6 months of ownership, and the dealer had already had one attempt at repair. (UK Consumer law)

It's very easy for dealers to just say "it's your driving style" without doing full checks .
So it's worth getting a detailed technical write up, on what hey have found and what they have done. In any case if they don't provide this it won't look good on them if a solicitor steps in.After all it's your car your entitled to know what they did.

Also
It may well be down to driving style , diesels don't like short runs , they need a good blast on a long run now and again to burn and clear out the soot in the filter. But it is worth investigating what the dealer has found and done and as mentioned above in posts, does your vehicle have one of the faulty boxes marked with FB, has the dealer checked?

Misselling is hard to prove as it's your word against the dealers. In the UK under our Consumer Rights Act 2015 " the vehicle must be "fit for any purpose made know at the time of sale" . So if you told them you just do short runs then this may be another avenue to explore.

I suspect your ACCC wil point you to the Oz equivalent of these uk laws.
 
#117 ·
NoDiscoSport said:
Chippy said:
I guess we'll never know what they are hiding but hiding something they surely are.
Say there are two drivers, whose cars "X" and "Y", need a service at the same time, but for quite different reasons as illustrated by the Boston Box below. For argument's sake, let's say the majority (90%) are "Y" cars. Here's the clever bit. The possibility that there are some "X" cars in the sample allows JLR to legitimately deflect attention towards those few "poorly driven" vehicles. The SSM disclosure, coupled with the lack of a build list, keeps everyone else in the dark about the actual proportion and perhaps that's the idea. If it was the other way round and there were only 9,000 DS vehicles to fix, wouldn't it be a great piece of PR to announce a program to get them properly repaired rather than wait for problems to occur???

SCRF - Copy.JPG
I think JLR would have three scenarios:

A) spend the couple of weeks and identify all those that need replacement and replace them.
Cost = number affected X £1500.......good PR

B) They already know how many are affected but will only replace on "breakage"
Cost = number affected complainants X £1500......poor PR and some customer dissatisfaction

C) They really have no idea how many are affected ???
 
#118 ·
It may well be down to driving style , diesels don't like short runs , they need a good blast on a long run now and again to burn and clear out the soot in the filter. But it is worth investigating what the dealer has found and done and as mentioned above in posts, does your vehicle have one of the faulty boxes marked with FB, has the dealer checked?

Misselling is hard to prove as it's your word against the dealers. In the UK under our Consumer Rights Act 2015 " the vehicle must be "fit for any purpose made know at the time of sale" . So if you told them you just do short runs then this may be another avenue to explore.
It's a combination of driving style and real faults. I.e. a complete forced regen/then replacement of components followed by an amber lamp 30 miles later. This in itself could be repaired - although they have tried twice unsuccessfully.

Misselling - I get your point but it comes down to two of us testifying on oath that they assured us the car was suitable for our style of driving with no highway driving. There were other issues in the sale process which I won't list here...obviously it's not straightforward though.

I don't have to win in court, just - "just" - convince them before that that swapping us out to a petrol equivalent is best all round. Which will be relatively easy if they fail to get the DPF functioning at all this week.
 
#119 ·
melbmelb said:
It may well be down to driving style , diesels don't like short runs , they need a good blast on a long run now and again to burn and clear out the soot in the filter. But it is worth investigating what the dealer has found and done and as mentioned above in posts, does your vehicle have one of the faulty boxes marked with FB, has the dealer checked?

Misselling is hard to prove as it's your word against the dealers. In the UK under our Consumer Rights Act 2015 " the vehicle must be "fit for any purpose made know at the time of sale" . So if you told them you just do short runs then this may be another avenue to explore.
It's a combination of driving style and real faults. I.e. a complete forced regen/then replacement of components followed by an amber lamp 30 miles later. This in itself could be repaired - although they have tried twice unsuccessfully.

Misselling - I get your point but it comes down to two of us testifying on oath that they assured us the car was suitable for our style of driving with no highway driving. There were other issues in the sale process which I won't list here...obviously it's not straightforward though.

I don't have to win in court, just - "just" - convince them before that that swapping us out to a petrol equivalent is best all round. Which will be relatively easy if they fail to get the DPF functioning at all this week.
The mix between faults and driving style is the hardest to prove or disprove , but a chronological list of dates faults reported with actions taken by the dealer is the best way of showing the impact on the vehicle. This coupled with the dealers version of faults and fixes can then be contested if required.
As with all the UK cases ( and I suspect same in Australia) decisions are all evidence based and use facts only. It's having the ability to contest the facts that are in your favour , even if it is only your word against theirs in cases such as misselling.
 
#120 ·
Barnsh, you've forgotten scenario D) which is my favourite - they don't actually care because whatever they do it's going to cost them. I'm sorry if I seem excessively negative but I genuinely do believe it.
 
#121 ·
Chippy said:
Barnsh, you've forgotten scenario D) which is my favourite - they don't actually care because whatever they do it's going to cost them. I'm sorry if I seem excessively negative but I genuinely do believe it.
Yep of course.
It's money again
 
#122 ·
The DPF malarkey is a sick Joke, my car is less than a year old and has been regenerated by me or the Garage circa 12 times so far. Last Thursday I had to drive down the motorway wasting time and money doing a Regeneration exactly in line with JLR instruction. Regen lights on the Dash disappeared after 20 minutes and about the same miles. Today, just 5 days and 240 miles (including circa 200 motorway miles) later, regen lights are back on!

That's the 3rd time of regen Alerts this year!

EDIT
The Dealer and JLR keep telling me its my driving style, what a load of BS!
 
#123 ·
So we had an oil change warning at 3900km. changed and software update. Faulty particle filter shortly after. Amber lamp 5 days after new filter, red lamp 15 minutes after amber lamp while driving at 70km/hr+. Towed.
2g particulate found in the new DPF 12 days after it was changed, despite the red lamp having come on. No other problems can be found.

I'm thinking the easiest option for all is to try and do a trade-in for petrol on good terms. Otherwise it's off to small claims.
 
#124 ·
Deker said:
The Dealer and JLR keep telling me its my driving style, what a load of BS!
I think everyone has the right to their own driving style. Never owned a vehicle before that tells me where and how I should be driving, and for how long. I really don't have time to be forced by my car to go for a half hour drive especially when it tells me to do it every week. And I won't.
 
#125 ·
Yes I agree. It's infuriating that the blame for these filters is being put on the owners. I can't believe they ever started saying that, they've made themselves look ridiculous. Since when do you spend that amount on a car only to later find out that it can't cope with town driving! My dealer is not saying that fortunately, but I did get it from a central customer services call. When you start thinking whether you should just walk somewhere instead of driving because the car might not like it, that's not good!

Mine is still at the dealers, after the exact same scenario- software update and new injector after the engine light came on. 5 days and about 10 miles later the amber lights came on and soon after, the red. I'm driving a courtesy car while they investigate the scrf thing I was advised about and they tell me what my options are, that doesn't leave me out of pocket.
 
#126 ·
Karwomann said:
Yes I agree. It's infuriating that the blame for these filters is being put on the owners. I can't believe they ever started saying that, they've made themselves look ridiculous. Since when do you spend that amount on a car only to later find out that it can't cope with town driving! My dealer is not saying that fortunately, but I did get it from a central customer services call. When you start thinking whether you should just walk somewhere instead of driving because the car might not like it, that's not good!

Mine is still at the dealers, after the exact same scenario- software update and new injector after the engine light came on. 5 days and about 10 miles later the amber lights came on and soon after, the red. I'm driving a courtesy car while they investigate the scrf thing I was advised about and they tell me what my options are, that doesn't leave me out of pocket.
Don't hold your breath, my dpf was changed and the yellow lamp was back 5 days and maybe 50km later at most. No fault found now and they are giving it back to us. We will need to trade for a petrol.
 
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